Vegan Restaurant: The Good & The Bad

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The discussion revolves around the menu offerings at a vegan restaurant that include imitation meat dishes, which some participants find contradictory to the essence of veganism. There is a consensus that instead of imitating meat, vegan cuisine should focus on creating flavorful, authentic plant-based dishes. Many express discomfort with the idea of consuming heavily processed meat substitutes, arguing that it undermines the appeal of veganism. Concerns are raised about the health implications of a vegan diet, particularly for children, citing potential nutritional deficiencies. Participants also debate the appropriateness of labeling plant-based foods with meat terminology, advocating for clearer naming conventions that reflect the actual ingredients. Overall, the conversation highlights philosophical disagreements about the nature of veganism and the role of imitation meat in plant-based diets.
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I went to a Vegan Restaurant today for lunch and ended up ordering hummus and some vegetable barley soup. It was really good, but most of the food on the menu creeped me out. Here are some of the items on the menu:

Ham and Cheese Sandwich

Buffalo Chicken Drumsticks

Cheesesteak

Turkey Melt

Anyone else noticing a problem??

I know that they are probably using imitation meat and whatnot, but it seems kinda silly to me. I guess I have a philosophical disagreement with this group of vegans on this matter.

If your selling vegan food don't you think you should work on making good tasting, openly vegan dishes instead of trying to imitate meat?

I'm not a vegan so I'll be happy to hear any vegan's opinion on this matter.
 
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G01 said:
I went to a Vegan Restaurant today for lunch and ended up ordering hummus and some vegetable barley soup. It was really good, but most of the food on the menu creeped me out. Here are some of the items on the menu:

Ham and Cheese Sandwich

Buffalo Chicken Drumsticks

Cheesesteak

Turkey Melt

Anyone else noticing a problem??

I know that they are probably using imitation meat and whatnot, but it seems kinda silly to me. I guess I have a philosophical disagreement with this group of vegans on this matter.

If your selling vegan food don't you think you should work on making good tasting, openly vegan dishes instead of trying to imitate meat?

I'm not a vegan so I'll be happy to hear any vegan's opinion on this matter.
I'm not a vegan, either, but I have the same conceptual problem that you do. I have a vegan neighbor and he grills up "sausages" made of soy protein. I can see not wanting to eat meat, but not wanting to eat meat while pretending to eat meat is a bit silly.

There are lots of times when I make vegetable dishes, not because I don't eat meat, but because they can taste really good. Lentil soup, black bean dip, barley-and-bean soup, etc, etc. Why have fake stuff on the menu when you can serve curried rice, and other stuff that tastes great? I've made some great-tasting wraps from soft flour tortillas, home-made black bean dip, vegetables, and my home-made salsa. Low-fat tasty and very healthy for you.
 
Like the Linda McCartney stuff in supermarkets. Recreates the authentic taste of discount supermarket frozen burgers without meat - what an acheivement.

Maybe the other way round could work? New improved cattle feed - looks and tastes just like cow feed but is made from diseased sheep brains. What could go wrong?
 
It's like the "meatless chicken" frozen dinner my friend bought. What is "meatless chicken", is it just the bones?
 
G01 said:
Ham and Cheese Sandwich
Buffalo Chicken Drumsticks
Cheesesteak
Turkey Melt
What do you know, it turns out I'm a vegan.
 
Evo said:
It's like the "meatless chicken" frozen dinner my friend bought. What is "meatless chicken", is it just the bones?
"No chickens were harmed in the preparation of this meal."

just poor innocent soybeans that CAN'T run away...
 
One of my favourite places to eat is a vegetarian place, even though I'm not vegetarian. They do some excellent dishes using no meat sustitutes at all, but do include some fake meat in some of their stuff. I guess they have to listen to what their customers want, and if they like fake meat that's what they'll buy.
Why do you guys disagree with vegans eating meat substitutes?
 
matthyaouw said:
Why do you guys disagree with vegans eating meat substitutes?
It's not a "disagreement" IMO, just a logical disconnect. Why eat some heavily-processed ersatz meat, when you can have really good dishes made from minimally-processed vegetables. I don't get the attraction. Dishes made from rice, beans, onions, potatoes, grains, etc can be wonderful, so why adulterate them with processed food products?
 
Who is having a tofurkey for Thanksgiving?
 
  • #10
It's not that I disagree with vegans eating fake meat. They can do what they want. What I mean is that the fake meat turns me off of veganism. It makes veganism less attractive to me. I'd rather my meals be open about not containing meat, rather than trying to replace meat with tofu. I think the fake meat actually takes away from many vegan dishes.
 
  • #11
Evo said:
Who is having a tofurkey for Thanksgiving?

 
  • #12
turbo-1 said:
Why eat some heavily-processed ersatz meat, when you can have really good dishes made from minimally-processed vegetables

More importantly, why eat some heavily-processed ersatz meat, when you can have meat? :confused:
 
  • #13
G01 said:
It's not that I disagree with vegans eating fake meat. They can do what they want. What I mean is that the fake meat turns me off of veganism. It makes veganism less attractive to me. I'd rather my meals be open about not containing meat, rather than trying to replace meat with tofu. I think the fake meat actually takes away from many vegan dishes.

Vegetarians need fake meat - all of those commercials about cheesestakes - nothing to kill that temptation like a good vegetarian cheesestake hmmm :approve: ...
 
  • #14
Now if you could make veggie bacon sandwiches that tasted like the real thing - you could really cleanup.
 
  • #15
mgb_phys said:
Now if you could make veggie bacon sandwiches that tasted like the real thing - you could really cleanup.

I guess that is one of the principles of veganism - if we could have veggie bacon register in our brain as real bacon - humans would not need to kill. Yes we would all be dispelled of the brainwashing that humans need meat.

We would then collectively proceed to contract all types of diseases and become emaciated as well as unhappy.

I've had friends who were vegetarians and they were always unhappily searching for novel types of foods. They were really creative at conjuring up new dishes.
 
  • #16
ugh, veganism creeps me out. veganism is unhealthy and should only be practiced by consenting adults lacking reproductive capacity. if i hear of one more story of neurologically damaged babies from vegan mothers... :mad:
 
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  • #17
GCT said:
I've had friends who were vegetarians and they were always unhappily searching for novel types of foods. They were really creative at conjuring up new dishes.
My vegan neighbor is heavily reliant on my chili relishes, salsas, etc, to make his tofu dogs and tofu sausages palatable. That's OK, because he is generous with his fruits and vegetables, and got me established as a garlic-grower.
 
  • #18
I guess that is one of the principles of veganism - if we could have veggie bacon register in our brain as real bacon - humans would not need to kill. Yes we would all be dispelled of the brainwashing that humans need meat.
I'm mostly veggie for the same reason as Turbo said - why have curry made from bland textureless and tasteless factory chicken when you can make much nicer vegetable curry.

Apparently the bacon sandwich is known as 'vegetarian kryptonite' - you have to be a pretty committed vegetarian to resist !
 
  • #19
Proton Soup said:
ugh, veganism creeps me out. veganism is unhealthy and should only be practiced by consenting adults lacking reproductive capacity. if i hear of one more story of neurologically damaged babies from vegan mothers... :mad:

Does this really happen? I have known many vegans, but none that have been in "child bearing years".
 
  • #20
Ms Music said:
Does this really happen? I have known many vegans, but none that have been in "child bearing years".
If you are breast feeding and vegan you should take B12 supplements (if you are vegan you probably want to take B12 anyway).
On the other hand if you are veggie you are probably stocked to the eyeballs with folic acid which is also important.

Given the choice of vegan mother who breastfeeds and feeds them fresh fruit and veg and a 'normal' mother that gives the kids formula and then fast food for the next 18years - I know where my health concerns would be.
 
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  • #21
mgb_phys said:
If you are breast feeding and vegan you should take B12 supplements (if you are vegan you probably want to take B12 anyway).
On the other hand if you are veggie you are probably stocked to the eyeballs with folic acid which is also important.

Given the choice of vegan mother who breastfeeds and foods them fresh fruit and veg and a 'normal' mother that gives the kids formula and then fast food for the next 18years - I know where my health concerns woudl be.

Well I would guess that vegans would want their children to be vegan also, and wouldn't breast milk be a non-vegan food :-p ?
 
  • #22
turbo-1 said:
I can see not wanting to eat meat, but not wanting to eat meat while pretending to eat meat is a bit silly.

Bingo! This is my problem with the fake-meat too. It's like they're not really committed to veganism, just faking it, by trying to eat fake meat. To me, it says, "Vegan food is unappetizing, so we try to pretend it's meat." Instead, if they promoted it for what it is, it would probably sound more appealing.

I refuse to even try the vegetarian meatloaf that our cafeteria serves, simply on principle (it scares me...I keep wondering if vegetarian meat comes from vegetarians...maybe that's how they hide the malpractice cases! :eek:). If they called it, "Vegetable Loaf," I might just try it. I don't need to eat meat at every meal, so I'm perfectly happy to try some vegetarian dishes for lunch, especially if they might be a bit lighter in calories than the meat options that day, but I just cannot make myself even try "Vegetarian Meatloaf." It's not like we're all 6 years old and need to be tricked into eating our vegetables. :rolleyes:
 
  • #23
Moonbear said:
I refuse to even try the vegetarian meatloaf that our cafeteria serves, simply on principle (it scares me...I keep wondering if vegetarian meat comes from vegetarians...maybe that's how they hide the malpractice cases! :eek:).
Eat it, Moonie! You could be a true humanitarian!
 
  • #24
turbo-1 said:
Eat it, Moonie! You could be a true humanitarian!

:smile: <<<<<GROAN>>>>> :smile:
 
  • #25
mgb_phys said:
If you are breast feeding and vegan you should take B12 supplements (if you are vegan you probably want to take B12 anyway).
On the other hand if you are veggie you are probably stocked to the eyeballs with folic acid which is also important.

Given the choice of vegan mother who breastfeeds and feeds them fresh fruit and veg and a 'normal' mother that gives the kids formula and then fast food for the next 18years - I know where my health concerns would be.

yes. and even when they think they're doing the right thing and taking supplements, they still fail. i can see why. long term deficiency depletes liver stores.

i also think it's going to be difficult for vegans to do well wrt to zinc, iron, choline, DHA, etc. humans are not designed to eat that way. we need our veggies, but we also need eggs, fish, and lean red meat. some wealthy and highly educated people may be able to make it work, but it's very difficult. it certainly doesn't make sound policy for the general population.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/289/8/979

Neurologic Impairment in Children Associated With Maternal Dietary Deficiency of Cobalamin—Georgia, 2001

JAMA. 2003;289:979-980.

MMWR. 2003;52:61-64

2 tables omitted

During 2001, neurologic impairment resulting from cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency was diagnosed in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets.* This report summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.


Case 1

During August 2001, a girl aged 15 months was hospitalized for lethargy and failure to thrive. She was born after a full-term pregnancy complicated by prolonged nausea and vomiting. She was breastfed for 8 months, but the extent (exclusivity) of breast milk consumed relative to other food was unknown. Her mother reported following a vegan diet during the preceding 7 years and took nutritional and vitamin supplements. The cobalamin content of the supplements was unknown. When the child was aged approximately 8 months, organic whole-grain cereals and fruit shakes were introduced, but she had a poor appetite and vomited regularly. Her parents became concerned about her growth and development, and she was evaluated by a pediatrician at age 15 months. The pediatrician diagnosed failure to thrive, developmental delay, and severe macrocytic anemia. The child was hospitalized, and cobalamin deficiency was diagnosed (marked elevation [not quantified] of urine methylmalonic acid; serum B12:100 pg/mL [normal range: 210-911 pg/mL]).

The child received supplementary food by mouth and by nasogastric tube. She also received 2 mg of cyanocobalamin and 3 mg of hydroxocobalamin intramuscularly (IM) over 3 days. Three days later, she had partial complex seizures, which stopped without anticonvulsants. A brain MRI indicated global cerebral atrophy. The mother was treated with 1 mg of cobalamin IM.

At age 16 months, the child was seen in a genetics clinic to eliminate possible genetic causes of her neurologic deficiency. At age 28 months, her developmental skills ranged from 9 months for fine motor skills to 18 months for gross motor skills. Her expressive language was at 10 months, and her receptive language was at 12 months. At age 32 months, she had made developmental progress but continued to have developmental delays, especially in speech and language. She was prescribed daily sublingual cobalamin supplements.
 
  • #26
Vegan is just not a normal, healthy diet. When your diet doesn't provide your body with what it needs and you have to rely on supplements, what does that say? I personally would never let a child or teenager go on a vegan diet, their bodies are growing and depend too much on a well balanced diet. Putting a pet on a vegan diet is just criminal.
 
  • #27
Evo said:
Putting a pet on a vegan diet is just criminal.
300px-Rabbitattack.jpg
 
  • #28
:smile:
 
  • #29
See what can happen??

"It's a killer!"
 
  • #30
Proton Soup said:
ugh, veganism creeps me out. veganism is unhealthy and should only be practiced by consenting adults lacking reproductive capacity.

Wait, that implies that there are non-consenting adults forced into veganism. Is there some cult I don't know about? :confused:http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/lol.gif

(Just kidding, I know you were talking about children.)
 
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  • #31
Evo said:
Putting a pet on a vegan diet is just criminal.

Does this really happen?!

How dumb do you have to be have a carnivorous animal as a pet and try to feed it only vegetables?
 
  • #32
G01 said:
How dumb do you have to be have a carnivorous animal as a pet and try to feed it only vegetables?
How dumb do you have to be to put nutrasweet in your humming bird feeder!

Dogs are omnivores - you can safely feed dogs veggie dog food which has all the extra vitamins etc.
Cats are much easier, you can feed cats vegetarian food and they will simply ignore it and go and get fed at a neighbour's house!
 
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  • #33
mgb_phys said:
How dumb do you have to be to put nutrasweet in your humming bird feeder!

Dogs are omnivores - you can safely feed dogs veggie dog food which has all the extra vitamins etc.
Cats are much easier, you can feed cats vegetarian food and they will simply ignore it and go and get fed at a neighbour's house!

quite a bit of catfood does seem to be vegetable crap, now. it's like some kind of soggy dumplings in a protein gravy.
 
  • #34
Proton Soup said:
quite a bit of catfood does seem to be vegetable crap, now. it's like some kind of soggy dumplings in a protein gravy.

A "Protein Soup", as it were? :wink:
 
  • #35
In the UK one can be a reluctant vegi, just buy steak and onion pies or any (meat) pie or sausages.
 
  • #36
Moonbear said:
Bingo! This is my problem with the fake-meat too. It's like they're not really committed to veganism, just faking it, by trying to eat fake meat. To me, it says, "Vegan food is unappetizing, so we try to pretend it's meat."

Meat eaters don't only steak, there are many processed foods from meat products, why is tje vegetarian not allowed to have processed foods? I like to bbq, that has nothing to do with wanting to pretend to be a meateater.
 
  • #37
CaptainQuasar said:
A "Protein Soup", as it were? :wink:


heh, yeah. you should see the cats when you give them something with real meat in it, tho. they go nuts.
 
  • #38
Monique said:
Meat eaters don't only steak, there are many processed foods from meat products, why is tje vegetarian not allowed to have processed foods? I like to bbq, that has nothing to do with wanting to pretend to be a meateater.

I don't care if a vegan or vegetarian wants to eat processed foods. I just don't think they should call those processed foods "meat" if they contain no meat. I'm not sure what point you're making. The issue here has nothing to do with the choice to avoid eating meat, it has to do with calling it meat anyway, which makes no sense. When I see "meatloaf" in the cafeteria, I expect it to have MEAT. If it has no meat, why would you call it meatloaf? Isn't it vegetable loaf, or grain loaf, or tofu loaf?
 
  • #39
Moonbear said:
When I see "meatloaf" in the cafeteria, I expect it to have MEAT. If it has no meat, why would you call it meatloaf?
You are going to be very dissapointed if you go to England and order 'spotted dick'
 
  • #40
Or "Rocky Mountain oysters" in the U.S., though it might be closer to what the person ordering spotted dick was expecting.
 
  • #41
Seriously MEAT loaf. It cannot be made without meat.

I agree with MB, don't pretend it's meat. If you abhore meat, then be proud to say it's processed, artificially flavored soy or what ever it is.

I would love to eat a mushroom pattie, don't try to pass it off as a meatless hamburger. When I bite into it, I'm expecting hamburger and I will be disappointed. A delicious mushroom pattie, I would savor.
 
  • #42
Proton Soup said:
heh, yeah. you should see the cats when you give them something with real meat in it, tho. they go nuts.

I make it a point to give Cha Cha the occasional mouse-size chunk of raw ground beef, if the quality is high (i.e. very low fat content) and it's ultra-fresh. She loves it. :!):!):!)

That said... I did have a roommate who made a great veggie-chili with fake meat crumbles and extra veggies added in. But that's as far as I'd go with the fake meat.
 
  • #43
Evo said:
I would love to eat a mushroom pattie, don't try to pass it off as a meatless hamburger. When I bite into it, I'm expecting hamburger and I will be disappointed. A delicious mushroom pattie, I would savor.
Absolutely! A grilled portobello mushroom sandwich is absolutely delicious, but I don't call it a hamburger, I call it a grilled portobello mushroom.

Or, for example, today, the cafeteria had what they called an Italian Vegetable Casserole. It basically looked like a lasagne on the surface, but had no pasta in it, it was all vegetables, but topped with a tomato sauce and soy cheese (not my favorite, but at least they didn't hide what it was). I got that for lunch, because it looked and sounded very yummy, and it was. If they called it lasagne, when it wasn't (there was no ricotta filling or pasta), I'd have probably really disliked it simply because it wouldn't have tasted anything like what I would have been expecting when I ordered it. So, they were able to make a vegetarian dish and give it a nice sounding name without misleading anyone about what it was, and it was tasty.

They always have two soup choices too, one with meat and one that's vegetarian, and the vegetarian soups are usually really tasty too (except once they used an Ornish recipe, and it was inedible...I've never seen that one reappear...it would have been a bland, tasteless recipe, which would have been bad enough, had it not seemed like the box of black pepper had exploded into the soup ). For example, today's choices were Italian wedding soup or vegetarian vegetable soup (always an oddly redundant name...I would have assumed that vegetable soup was vegetarian...but that's still better than vegetarian meat soup :wink:).

So, I just don't know why a neuron seems to misfire and they suddenly serve meatloaf with not a hint of meat or meat by-product in it. Or "meatless taco meat." :rolleyes: Why not call it "vegetarian taco filling," or "meatless taco filling," or some such? Why call it meat if there's no meat?

This bugs me even more in a hospital than anywhere else, because they should know that people have all sorts of various dietary restrictions, and shouldn't be misled about their food choices. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the vegetarians all skipped the "meatloaf" for a less healthy option if they didn't have any way to tell without sitting down and reading the tiny print on the ingredients card to find out that it wasn't meat at all.
 
  • #44
Y'know, it occurred to me reading the OP, maybe at that particular restaurant the servers simply got tired of answering the question "What does that taste like? And what does that taste like? And what does that taste like?"
 
  • #45
CaptainQuasar said:
Y'know, it occurred to me reading the OP, maybe at that particular restaurant the servers simply got tired of answering the question "What does that taste like? And what does that taste like? And what does that taste like?"
The answer? It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy.

Sorry, these substitutes do not taste like the meat they claim to be. They taste like soy. They have the texture of soy. They have no resemblance to meat.

Don't believe me? Chew into a steak or a pork chop, then chew into a soy patty.
 
  • #46
It depends on what they're actually doing, though. I've had some pretty good fake BBQ, though that's not on the menu he listed. And obviously the buffalo chicken thing is going to be battered and fried and very spicy, and the cheesesteak is going to have lots of American cheese...
 
  • #47
mgb_phys said:
You are going to be very dissapointed if you go to England and order 'spotted dick'


:bugeye: :smile:
 
  • #48
Evo said:
It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy. It tastes like soy.

Yummy! I'll confess to a penchant for chunks of plain, firm tofu. :biggrin:
Or sometimes tofu marinated in a good vinaigrette.
 
  • #49
physics girl phd said:
Yummy! I'll confess to a penchant for chunks of plain, firm tofu. :biggrin:
Or sometimes tofu marinated in a good vinaigrette.

I agree - I like well-prepared, firm tofu.

As far as matching texture, I think Boca burgers do a pretty good job matching the texture of ground beef.
 
  • #50
Fun fact of the day: Vegan diets are common practice of many satanic cults.
 

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