Vegan Restaurant: The Good & The Bad

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The discussion revolves around the menu offerings at a vegan restaurant that include imitation meat dishes, which some participants find contradictory to the essence of veganism. There is a consensus that instead of imitating meat, vegan cuisine should focus on creating flavorful, authentic plant-based dishes. Many express discomfort with the idea of consuming heavily processed meat substitutes, arguing that it undermines the appeal of veganism. Concerns are raised about the health implications of a vegan diet, particularly for children, citing potential nutritional deficiencies. Participants also debate the appropriateness of labeling plant-based foods with meat terminology, advocating for clearer naming conventions that reflect the actual ingredients. Overall, the conversation highlights philosophical disagreements about the nature of veganism and the role of imitation meat in plant-based diets.
  • #51
lisab said:
I agree - I like well-prepared, firm tofu.

As far as matching texture, I think Boca burgers do a pretty good job matching the texture of ground beef.
But isn't the thing they always praise about tofu is that by itself, it's pretty tasteless, and that the positive thing about it is that it will soak up the flavor of what it is cooked in?

I like Boca burgers because I know they are mushroom patties. They do not claim to be meat.
 
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  • #52
lisab said:
I agree - I like well-prepared, firm tofu.
I don't, but that's okay, the vegetarians don't like the steak I enjoy either, so it's all even. Nonetheless, yes, there are people who DO like tofu. I don't at all agree with those who claim it has no flavor of its own...yes it does. So, what's so bad about saying, "It tastes like tofu," or, if you don't know what tofu tastes like, and you're in a vegetarian restaurant, "Try it." I've tried it. I didn't decide anything about it's taste beforehand; I actually thought I'd like it when I first tried it since everyone described it as pretty bland and something that picks up the flavor of whatever it's marinated in, and then really didn't. Then again, I don't mind it in things like miso soup where there's enough other flavor that a couple little bits of tofu just blend into the overall taste.

As far as matching texture, I think Boca burgers do a pretty good job matching the texture of ground beef.

I can't agree on that. But, again, at least the name doesn't say "meat" in it. You know what you're getting, and if it's something you like great. If you don't like it, fine, you know to skip it.

I'm not going to tell people what to eat. Someone who eats meat can also end up with a nutrient deficiency if they aren't careful about their diet (think scurvy or goiter). i just don't understand tricking oneself or others into thinking they're eating meat if they aren't.
 
  • #53
Sometimes I think that tofu must have something in it that some people can taste and some people can't.

Certainly, tofu picks up flavors...I think of it like rice or mashed potatoes. Both have a taste, but because they are usually eaten in sauce/gravy or with other food, many people aren't aware of their real taste.
 
  • #54
lisab said:
Sometimes I think that tofu must have something in it that some people can taste and some people can't.

Certainly, tofu picks up flavors...I think of it like rice or mashed potatoes. Both have a taste, but because they are usually eaten in sauce/gravy or with other food, many people aren't aware of their real taste.
It's like noodles. You rarely see just plain boiled noodles. They have a taste, but not one you could just eat a large bowl of with nothing added. They go well with sauces though.
 
  • #55
Evo said:
It's like noodles. You rarely see just plain boiled noodles. They have a taste, but not one you could just eat a large bowl of with nothing added. They go well with sauces though.

Hmmph! Speak for yourself! I could eat a whole bowl of plain pasta or potatoes. :approve: But, yes, the analogy of those to tofu is a better one than that it is some tasteless substance that ONLY takes on the flavor of other things. Soy very definitely has a flavor of its own, and yes, it picks up other flavors TOO, and if you drown it in enough other flavors, you can sometimes hide the flavor of tofu.
 
  • #56
Oh, I love tofu! It's great when cooked right. I was a Vegan for like 10 years, I just recently started to but chicken back into my diet. We had eggplant Parmesean today for lunch, and baked cheese sticks(made with Olive Oil). Oh, it was to die for, if there ever was a such thing as a foodgasim.
 
  • #57
Moonbear said:
I don't care if a vegan or vegetarian wants to eat processed foods. I just don't think they should call those processed foods "meat" if they contain no meat. I'm not sure what point you're making.
I think the point is that it is frowned upon that there are vegetarian burgers and sausages. At least that is what I have heard. And my point is: why can't you have a vegetarian sausage. I agree that you shouldn't call it pork, which the products that are available here don't pretend to be. The only time I came across it was at a Chinese store where they sold imitation pork, which in fact was seitan. I think such products are a bit out-dated.
 
  • #58
I don't like tofu at all. Even when I get it in something like Pad Thai, I just push all the tofu to the side. (This says a lot, cause I usually eat everything on my plate!:biggrin:)

My issue is that certain vegans (not all) need to stop passing off tofu, seitan, etc. as something that they are not.

As Evo said, I would be disappointed with a "hamburger" made from portabello, but I would enjoy a "grilled mushroom sandwich". This is because in the latter I will be expecting and anticipating what I'm actually going to get for my meal.
 
  • #59
EsoEng said:
Oh, Evo, darling, fallen asleep on the job or are your double standards showing, again?

Are you seriously suggesting that Evo has some sort of favoritism for Satanic cults? That is as manifestly ridiculous a statement as the one about Vegans and Satanists.

Evo is awesome at her job. Seriously, have you ever been to a forum with poor moderation? Ever?
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  • #60
I am stating that Evo is biased against vegans and vegan issues.

I posted two responses into this thread. Both were deleted by Evo using the trumped-up excuse that they made claims which were not supported.

Go through this thread and note how many anti-vegan posts have been made, including by Evo herself, which make strong claims but offer nothing to support them.

Why do those posts remain whilst mine are deleted? Evo is not answering my PMed question concerning this issue. The guilty often remain silent when cornered.
 
  • #61
there is definitely an antireligious bent to this forum. and the statement above seems a way to defame vegans, so could use a reference.

personally, i don't care what adults do with themselves, as long as children (present or future) are not involved. i understand that some people don't want to harm animals, and while i feel that's got a bit of a religious backing to, it's your right to follow your beliefs.

as for my beefs with veganism, I've started by backing it up with studies, and I'm perfectly willing to carry on a pubmed battle here to support my view. and believe me, there's a lot more.
 
  • #62
Look man, she's pretty reasonable. If you've got something to say that's true and you can demonstrate it and present it in an objective way she will let it be. Maybe start off by putting the basics out there, the absolutely and easily proveable stuff.

You can try finding supporting information in textbooks too at http://books.google.com/. (Though obviously, it has to be a reputable source and not just some mass-market book about dieting that isn't cited.)

I find the mods on this site are quite reasonable on the whole. I've had some tiffs over one comment or another, but even if something is borderline they'll discuss it amongst themselves so it's not just one person's judgement, or another practical way they often deal with things is to leave a borderline comment out there but lock the thread it's in. They are serious in their pursuit of fairness and definitely effective in allowing lots of different opinions but preventing the site from degrading into a verbal food fight like so many places are.
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  • #63
Proton Soup said:
there is definitely an antireligious bent to this forum. and the statement above seems a way to defame vegans, so could use a reference.

personally, i don't care what adults do with themselves, as long as children (present or future) are not involved. i understand that some people don't want to harm animals, and while i feel that's got a bit of a religious backing to, it's your right to follow your beliefs.

as for my beefs with veganism, I've started by backing it up with studies, and I'm perfectly willing to carry on a pubmed battle here to support my view. and believe me, there's a lot more.

I admit that veganism is a notable cause , I have supported the antivivisection society when I was in college. However I knew people who were vegans and all of them were just miserable. It is true that we are treating some animals like **** and this needs to be taken into account , however it is my opinion that we are mostly carnivorous in nature , and not eating meat is not going to have any vicarious effect in mobilizing people to treat animals any better.
 
  • #64
GCT said:
I admit that veganism is a notable cause , I have supported the antivivisection society when I was in college. However I knew people who were vegans and all of them were just miserable. It is true that we are treating some animals like **** and this needs to be taken into account , however it is my opinion that we are mostly carnivorous in nature , and not eating meat is not going to have any vicarious effect in mobilizing people to treat animals any better.

i hear you, i am a devout omnivore, myself. it's just the way we're made.

and i am troubled if I'm eating a chicken wing and find a broken bone. it bothers me to think that people have mishandled my food.
 
  • #65
EsoEng said:
I am stating that Evo is biased against vegans and vegan issues.

I posted two responses into this thread. Both were deleted by Evo using the trumped-up excuse that they made claims which were not supported.

Go through this thread and note how many anti-vegan posts have been made, including by Evo herself, which make strong claims but offer nothing to support them.

Why do those posts remain whilst mine are deleted? Evo is not answering my PMed question concerning this issue. The guilty often remain silent when cornered.
Your posts were deleted because they contained dangerous health misinformation and parts were pure crackpot, which is why you were told you had to furnish valid studies to back up your crackpot claims.

Your pm's were nonsensical rants.
 
  • #66
GCT said:
I admit that veganism is a notable cause , I have supported the antivivisection society when I was in college.

Whoa - vivisection is still performed? I was reading magazine articles from a hundred years ago that mentioned it, I thought it wasn't practiced any more.
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  • #67
Evo said:
Your posts were deleted because they contained dangerous health misinformation and parts were pure crackpot, which is why you were told you had to furnish valid studies to back up your crackpot claims.

Your pm's were nonsensical rants.

There you go again with your favourite word ‘crackpot’! How you love to use that word, and how so ironic it is that you do.

What qualifies you to decide what is ‘crackpot’ or not? Is that not the whole point of citing valid sources when we make claims? As I have written before, where is the evidence to support your claims, and the claims of the other posters here? How are your claims and their claims safe and mine dangerous? Let’s see some evidence.

This is a simple case of you having power here over what people see and what they do not see. This is nothing to do with rules; you only use rules when you feel like it, when it suits your agenda and your belief system.

It is easy to claim that something is dangerous, but harder to prove it. I claim that your actions here, your posts, and some of the other outlandish posts in this thread (all of which do not support their wild claims) are in fact dangerous and invalid.

I could find solid evidence to support all that I wrote, even some of the info I heard from academics talking, and who do not refer the listener to particular journals every third word. But should I devote the time to do so? Would that be efficient?

What is this, a general chat section in an informal section of an internet forum or a meeting of policy making academics at the Royal Society? Whatever it is, the double standards are undeniable; the proof is in this thread: You allow what you want and disallow what you do not want. It has nothing to do with citing journals. That is just an excuse you use. It is one rule for some and another rule for others.

How about I repost my two comments stating that they are my opinion? We could then let others decide whether or not it is just and fair to delete my posts, whilst others, which also provide no references, remain.
 
  • #68
CaptainQuasar said:
Whoa - vivisection is still performed? I was reading magazine articles from a hundred years ago that mentioned it, I thought it wasn't practiced any more.
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Yep , some people believe it's the best way to elucidate what is going on under the influence of certain immediate effects of drugs for example. Some scientists within organizations may dispute this claim e.g. some members of the MAYO clinic. Yeah Descartes wasn't the only one who believed in this principle. It happens.
 
  • #69
EsoEng said:
I could find solid evidence to support all that I wrote, even some of the info I heard from academics talking, and who do not refer the listener to particular journals every third word. But should I devote the time to do so? Would that be efficient?

The mods are the ones donating their time to keep the wagon train moving on a site that people rely on for accurate information. So yes, it is far more appropriate for you to devote the time to proving what you say than it is for Evo or any of the others to slacken the standards of an effective approach to moderating.

It certainly would be a more efficient use of your time than cranking out reams of "you fail to see the violence inherent in the system!"

There are just some practical policies that have to be in place to effectively run a forum site like this. One of them is putting the squeeze on newbies who come in swinging improbable-looking claims around without proven support. Deal with it.
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  • #70
EsoEng has a 3 day 'time out" due to further issues. He's welcome to post scientifically sound health information when he returns.
 
  • #71
Will there be a vegetarian option for the fish slapping?
 
  • #72
mgb_phys said:
Will there be a vegetarian option for the fish slapping?
We had cereal and low carb options, but they never caught on. I think someone got hit with tofu once.
 
  • #74
Evo said:
We had cereal and low carb options, but they never caught on. I think someone got hit with tofu once.

wet noodle lashings can be vicious.
 
  • #75
Proton Soup said:
wet noodle lashings can be vicious.
Was she wearing a tight patent-leather leather Nazi costume and high-heeled boots?


(Just checking up on an old friend...)
 

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