Very difficult partial differential equation

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on solving a challenging partial differential equation (PDE) related to the motion of a conveyor belt, specifically given by the equation u_{tt}+2*V*u_{tx}+(V^{2}-c^{2})*u_{xx}=0 with boundary conditions u(0,t)=u(L,t)=0. Participants explore the separation of variables method, leading to the forms X(x)*T(t) and the subsequent ordinary differential equations for X and T. The discussion reveals difficulties in deriving nontrivial solutions, with participants debating the implications of boundary conditions and the nature of the solutions, ultimately concluding that the assumptions made may lead to trivial solutions.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of partial differential equations (PDEs)
  • Familiarity with separation of variables technique
  • Knowledge of boundary value problems
  • Experience with ordinary differential equations (ODEs)
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the method of separation of variables in depth
  • Learn about boundary value problems and their solutions
  • Explore the characteristics of ordinary differential equations (ODEs)
  • Investigate the implications of nontrivial solutions in PDEs
USEFUL FOR

Applied physics students, mathematicians, and engineers dealing with complex PDEs, particularly those interested in boundary value problems and the separation of variables technique.

  • #31
Thanks for your reply. The equation you got for X(x) is the same I tried to solve. Let's do it again:

\lambda^2+2VX'\lambda + (V^2-c^2)X''=0

has solution

X(x)=\exp\left(r_{\pm} x\right)

With r=\frac{V\lambda \pm c\sqrt{\lambda^2}}{V^2-c^2}

Now you can distinguish three cases:
  • \lambda purely real
  • \lambda purely imaginary
  • \lambda = a + bi

\lambda purely real
Then
r=\frac{-V\lambda \pm c\lambda}{V^2-c^2}=\frac{-V\lambda \pm c\lambda}{(V+c)(V-c)}=\frac{-\lambda}{V \pm c}
So
X(x)=A\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V+c}x\right)+B\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V-c}x\right)
With boundary conditions: X(0)=X(L)=0 it follows that A + B = 0 and
X(L)=A\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V+c}L\right)-A\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V-c}L\right)=0\Leftrightarrow A=0

It doesn't matter which values lambda takes (\lambda>0,\lambda<0, \lambda=0). \lambda cannot be purely real.

\lambda purely imaginary
Say \lambda = b i Then r=\frac{-b V i \pm c b i}{V^2-c^2}.
And
X(x)=A\exp\left(\frac{-b V i + c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)+B\exp\left(\frac{-b V i - c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)
X(0)=0 gives: B=-A, so
X(x)=A\exp\left(\frac{-bVi}{V^2-c^2}x \right) \left(\exp\left(\frac{c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)-\exp\left(\frac{- c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)\right)
X(x)=2iA\exp\left(\frac{-bVi}{V^2-c^2}x \right) \left(\sin\left( \frac{bcx}{V^2-c^2}\right))\right)
X(L)=0 gives b=\frac{n\pi \left( V^2 -c^2 \right)}{cL}
so \lambda = \frac{n\pi \left( V^2 -c^2 \right)}{cL} i

In the end then:

u(x,t)= \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n \sin\left(\frac{n \pi x}{L} \right)\exp\left(\frac{n\pi V x}{cL}i \right) \exp\left(\frac{n\pi (V^2-c^2) t}{cL}i \right)

Did you get this as a solution?

I haven't tried the third case yet.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
Mrx said:
Thanks for your reply. The equation you got for X(x) is the same I
u(x,t)= \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n \sin\left(\frac{n \pi x}{L} \right)\exp\left(\frac{n\pi V x}{cL}i \right) \exp\left(\frac{n\pi (V^2-c^2) t}{cL}i \right)

Did you get this as a solution?

Yes, that's the solution I got! It's tough but we've made it! Note that you can write this in sine and cosine and you can determine the (in this case 2) coefficients via the initial conditions.
 
  • #33
Okay great! thank you for your help.

Do you know what this equation ectually represents? I can't find anything about the physical meaning, or a derivation of this equation. I tried searching on conveyor belt equation but got nothing.
 
  • #34
spinoza1989 said:
Could anyone explain a little bit of the physical meaning of this PDE?

If V=0 than you have the wave equation. So c is the speed of the wave (in the belt) and u is the displacement in the y-direction. So what does it means that V=0, I think it means the belt is not moving. What is very strange to me because V is a constant and not time depending.

In the solution given by
Mrx said:
u(x,t)= \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n \sin\left(\frac{n \pi x}{L} \right)\exp\left(\frac{n\pi V x}{cL}i \right) \exp\left(\frac{n\pi (V^2-c^2) t}{cL}i \right)

you can bring the exp-parts together and you get a x-v't where v' is a the speed of the wave relative to the frame. (c is speed relative to the belt and V the speed of the belt relative to the frame).

2 V u_x_t + V^2 u_x_x is the "source therm" I think, first of all since you have just a wave equations and the other therms are source therms. Second reason is that the units of u_x_t are Hertz and mabye it has to do with the rotations of one of the wheels.

The 2V has something to do with the speed between upper belt and lower (returning) belt.

This is all what I could thought about.
Maybe somebody can make a 3dplot in maple?

Greetz Bendavid2
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K