Very difficult partial differential equation

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a challenging partial differential equation (PDE) related to the motion of a conveyor belt, specifically the equation u_{tt}+2*V*u_{tx}+(V^{2}-c^{2})*u_{xx}=0, with boundary conditions u(0,t)=u(L,t)=0. Participants are tasked with finding nontrivial solutions in the form X(x)*T(t).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the substitution of the solution form into the PDE and the subsequent differentiation with respect to x and t. There are attempts to derive relationships between the functions X(x) and T(t), with some questioning the implications of their findings, particularly regarding the nature of the solutions and boundary conditions.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the relationships derived from the equations, suggesting that certain ratios must be constant. There is ongoing exploration of the implications of these constants on the forms of X(x) and T(t). However, there is no consensus on how to resolve the contradictions arising from boundary conditions and the nature of the solutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of deriving nontrivial solutions given the boundary conditions, as well as the potential pitfalls of dividing by terms that may be zero. The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem and the need for careful consideration of assumptions made during the solution process.

  • #31
Thanks for your reply. The equation you got for X(x) is the same I tried to solve. Let's do it again:

\lambda^2+2VX'\lambda + (V^2-c^2)X''=0

has solution

X(x)=\exp\left(r_{\pm} x\right)

With r=\frac{V\lambda \pm c\sqrt{\lambda^2}}{V^2-c^2}

Now you can distinguish three cases:
  • \lambda purely real
  • \lambda purely imaginary
  • \lambda = a + bi

\lambda purely real
Then
r=\frac{-V\lambda \pm c\lambda}{V^2-c^2}=\frac{-V\lambda \pm c\lambda}{(V+c)(V-c)}=\frac{-\lambda}{V \pm c}
So
X(x)=A\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V+c}x\right)+B\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V-c}x\right)
With boundary conditions: X(0)=X(L)=0 it follows that A + B = 0 and
X(L)=A\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V+c}L\right)-A\exp\left(\frac{-\lambda}{V-c}L\right)=0\Leftrightarrow A=0

It doesn't matter which values lambda takes (\lambda>0,\lambda<0, \lambda=0). \lambda cannot be purely real.

\lambda purely imaginary
Say \lambda = b i Then r=\frac{-b V i \pm c b i}{V^2-c^2}.
And
X(x)=A\exp\left(\frac{-b V i + c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)+B\exp\left(\frac{-b V i - c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)
X(0)=0 gives: B=-A, so
X(x)=A\exp\left(\frac{-bVi}{V^2-c^2}x \right) \left(\exp\left(\frac{c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)-\exp\left(\frac{- c b i}{V^2-c^2}x \right)\right)
X(x)=2iA\exp\left(\frac{-bVi}{V^2-c^2}x \right) \left(\sin\left( \frac{bcx}{V^2-c^2}\right))\right)
X(L)=0 gives b=\frac{n\pi \left( V^2 -c^2 \right)}{cL}
so \lambda = \frac{n\pi \left( V^2 -c^2 \right)}{cL} i

In the end then:

u(x,t)= \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n \sin\left(\frac{n \pi x}{L} \right)\exp\left(\frac{n\pi V x}{cL}i \right) \exp\left(\frac{n\pi (V^2-c^2) t}{cL}i \right)

Did you get this as a solution?

I haven't tried the third case yet.
 
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  • #32
Mrx said:
Thanks for your reply. The equation you got for X(x) is the same I
u(x,t)= \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n \sin\left(\frac{n \pi x}{L} \right)\exp\left(\frac{n\pi V x}{cL}i \right) \exp\left(\frac{n\pi (V^2-c^2) t}{cL}i \right)

Did you get this as a solution?

Yes, that's the solution I got! It's tough but we've made it! Note that you can write this in sine and cosine and you can determine the (in this case 2) coefficients via the initial conditions.
 
  • #33
Okay great! thank you for your help.

Do you know what this equation ectually represents? I can't find anything about the physical meaning, or a derivation of this equation. I tried searching on conveyor belt equation but got nothing.
 
  • #34
spinoza1989 said:
Could anyone explain a little bit of the physical meaning of this PDE?

If V=0 than you have the wave equation. So c is the speed of the wave (in the belt) and u is the displacement in the y-direction. So what does it means that V=0, I think it means the belt is not moving. What is very strange to me because V is a constant and not time depending.

In the solution given by
Mrx said:
u(x,t)= \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} a_n \sin\left(\frac{n \pi x}{L} \right)\exp\left(\frac{n\pi V x}{cL}i \right) \exp\left(\frac{n\pi (V^2-c^2) t}{cL}i \right)

you can bring the exp-parts together and you get a x-v't where v' is a the speed of the wave relative to the frame. (c is speed relative to the belt and V the speed of the belt relative to the frame).

2 V u_x_t + V^2 u_x_x is the "source therm" I think, first of all since you have just a wave equations and the other therms are source therms. Second reason is that the units of u_x_t are Hertz and mabye it has to do with the rotations of one of the wheels.

The 2V has something to do with the speed between upper belt and lower (returning) belt.

This is all what I could thought about.
Maybe somebody can make a 3dplot in maple?

Greetz Bendavid2
 

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