Vorticity is equivalent to angular momentum?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between vorticity and angular momentum in fluid dynamics. Participants explore whether vorticity can be considered equivalent to angular momentum, particularly in the context of shear stress and its effects on fluid elements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that vorticity is defined as twice the angular velocity of a fluid element.
  • Others argue that vorticity is related to angular momentum, questioning whether shear stress leads to a change in angular momentum or simply contributes to it.
  • A participant mentions that in a Couette flow, shear stress acts on fluid elements, suggesting that this may prevent the conservation of angular momentum.
  • Some participants clarify that vorticity remains constant in a Couette flow, despite the presence of shear stresses, leading to questions about the relationship between vorticity and angular momentum.
  • There is a reference to the definition of the rotation vector and its relation to vorticity, with some participants expressing confusion over the application to fluid dynamics versus rigid body dynamics.
  • One participant recalls that the line integral of velocity along a closed loop is conserved, which may relate to the constancy of vorticity along streamlines.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between vorticity and angular momentum, with no consensus reached on whether vorticity can be directly equated to angular momentum or how shear stress influences these quantities.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions about the behavior of vorticity and angular momentum under shear stress, as well as the definitions and applicability of concepts from rigid body dynamics to fluid dynamics.

hanson
Messages
312
Reaction score
0
Hi all.
In Fluid dynamics, is vorticity equiavlent to angular momentum?
It seems that vorticity is twice of the rate of rotation of a fluid element at a point, and angular momentum is the density times the rate of rotation of a fluid element, so they just differ by some constant?

But it is a bit strange to me...
I know the the rate of rotation of a fluid element is proportional to shear stress in fluid dynamics. So shear stress gives rise to rate of rotation of a fluid element and hence angular momentum of the element. But from physics, the presence of shear stress (think of force) shall give rise to "rate of change of angular momentum", isn't it?

So...which is the correct one? Shear stress just give angular momentum or rate of change of angular momentum?

Please kindly explain.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Can someone help?
 
Vorticity is just twice the angular velocity.
 
cyrusabdollahi said:
Vorticity is just twice the angular velocity.

In general the "vorticity" (\vec \omega) is given by
<br /> \vec \omega = \nabla \times \vec v<br />
where v is the fluid velocity.

*If* the fluid velocity happens to be given by the expression
<br /> \vec v = \vec \Omega \times \vec v<br />
for some *constant* Omega, then
<br /> \vec \omega = 2\vec \Omega<br />
(cf. Landau and Lif****z volume 6 Eq. 8.2 and text following.)
 
Vorticity is defined as twice the rotation vector. I don't understand your post.
 
did you cf. the reference I gave?
 
cyrusabdollahi said:
Vorticity is defined as twice the rotation vector. I don't understand your post.

Furthermore, you seem to be posting about a rigid body for which there can be a single "rotation vector." The OP asked about a fluid (for which rigid rotation is a very special case.)
 
the rotation vector is given by omega. \omega = \frac{1}{2} \nabla \times V

A fluid element has a rotation vector associated with it. I am not making any claims to rigid bodies. I don't know what you mean by c.f. your references.
 
Last edited:
thanks for all the replies.
I know that vorticity is twice the rate of rotation of infinitesimal fluid element at a point.
But I would like to know if the vorticity is related to the angular momentum of that fluid element as well. Since angular momentum is related to angular velocity of the element by the moment of inertia.

If vorticity is related to angular momentum, then vorticity shall be conserved when there is no net torque acting on the fluid element, right?

So, here I consider a Couette Flow (a viscous shear flow). Picking an element from the flow, there would be shear stress of equal mgnitude but different direction acting the upper and lower surfaces of the element. So, there shall be a net torque acting on the element, right? So, the angular momentum of the element shall not be conserved in this case?

However, in a Couette flow, the vorticity is constant everywhere. If we consider the vorticity of an element, it is still constant as it flows. So, why the shear stresses on the upper and lower surface of the element do not change the angular momentum (or vorticity) of the fluid element?
 
  • #10
cyrusabdollahi said:
the rotation vector is given by omega. \omega = \frac{1}{2} \nabla \times V

um... okay. So, you have defined the rotation vector as half the vorticity. Fair enough.
 
  • #11
hanson said:
thanks for all the replies.
I know that vorticity is twice the rate of rotation of infinitesimal fluid element at a point.
But I would like to know if the vorticity is related to the angular momentum of that fluid element as well. Since angular momentum is related to angular velocity of the element by the moment of inertia.

If vorticity is related to angular momentum, then vorticity shall be conserved when there is no net torque acting on the fluid element, right?

I don't know about that... maybe not. I don't think that vorticity is necessarily proportional to angular momentum... but really I can't remember.

I do seem to recall that the line integral of the velocity along a closed loop which itself travels along streamlines is conserved... so for a small loop in this sense the vorticity remains constant as the fluid particle travels along a streamline... but perhaps this is a red herring.

Maybe Landau has something useful. Section 18 deal with Couette flow, but just glancing at it I did not find anything too helpful.

Good luck.
 
  • #12
olgranpappy said:
um... okay. So, you have defined the rotation vector as half the vorticity. Fair enough.

Not I, my fluid mechanics text and aerodynamics text have. :-p
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
16K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K