Was My Gym Teacher Out of Line?

[pallidin]

But there is nothing in this story that indicates she was demeaned in front of her peers. The teacher may have spoken a bit out of frustration over the attitude, and the generalization to all G/T students was inappropriate, but that was all done privately, not in front of the whole class. Though, perhaps the teacher should have simply done what my teachers did if a student broke rules and then got defiant about it...send her to the principal's office. But, I'm sure that would have been considered "public humiliation" too. There's just way too much coddling going on anymore, and it's starting to show its effects in the college-aged population as well now. They just can't resolve simple, common conflicts on their own that any adult ought to be able to resolve. (Yes, there are exceptions of more mature students, but they are becoming too much of an exception rather than the rule.)

I am sure you are correct. Perhaps my extension of educator/minor student relations was over-drawn in that circumstance, but I hope you and others can appreciate the concern.
What I find most compelling with your post is your statement "...There's just way too much coddling going on anymore..."
Indeed, and that is a serious problem.

As I retire for the evening may everyone, including myself, remember that the fate of our children rests, in part, with our decisions for their growth.

Peace to all.

 

[Curious3141]

Anyhoo, gym at this age is all about suffering. Whatever terrible things I remember happening, I never had to swim naked in the winter in gym class so it could have been worse.

I just watched the rerun of the Seinfeld ep about the gym teacher ("CAN'TSTANDYA", giving George wedgies, etc.). And the bit that Seinfeld did about gym being like "Lord of the Flies" and disrupting the general civility of the rest of the school day rang very true.

 

[Moonbear]

I am sure you are correct. Perhaps my extension of educator/minor student relations was over-drawn in that circumstance, but I hope you and others can appreciate the concern.

I do appreciate the concern, I just think it was getting muddled up coming across as if you meant it specifically in this case, when you were referring in general to an "if it happened like..." situation.

What I find most compelling with your post is your statement "...There's just way too much coddling going on anymore..."
Indeed, and that is a serious problem.

Yes, I think somewhere between corporal punishment in the schools and the over-coddling and fear of hurting feelings, someone missed the reasonable middle ground that helps shape youth into responsible adults in a constructive rather than destructive manner.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I think Joe Schmoe that makes under 50 a year is only capable of playing dodge ball games, and is incapable when it comes to playing with peoples emotions. How would a psychologist handle that situation, with a group of gifted children? Would he single out one and call one out in public, or would that take place in private? What's the purpose of calling one out in public? To make an example?

 

[Moonbear]

I think Joe Schmoe that makes under 50 a year is only capable of playing dodge ball games, and is incapable when it comes to playing with peoples emotions. How would a psychologist handle that situation, with a group of gifted children? Would he single out one and call one out in public, or would that take place in private? What's the purpose of calling one out in public? To make an example?

Why should it be any different in gym class than any other class? If a student showed up to their algebra class without their book when they were told to bring it, should the teacher not ask, "where is your book?" And would it be acceptable for the student to get defiant with the teacher for asking?

Also, Phys. Ed. teachers are still teachers. They go through the education courses, which includes educational psychology, just like all the other teachers do. It's rather demeaning to suggest a phys ed teacher is only capable of playing dodge ball.

And, why should a group of gifted children be any different than any other children when it comes to emotional issues?

 

[jimmy p]

Wow... school in America sounds really daunting...

When I was at school (in England), if you for got your P.E. kit it was a straight detention. 15 minutes of doing nothing. Not too much of a punishment. Oh and you didn't do PE either. You just watched. No-one ever complained, we knew the rules.

It was much the same with every class really. Of course there were naughty kids but no-one really gave a load of attitude. They just mucked about. Maybe us Brits are too accepting.

 

[Chi Meson]

I didn't gety a chance yet to read all posts, but I must (as a High School teacher) give three perspective points.

You rarely get the full story from an upset student.

The number one rule for a teacher is: never ridicule a student.
Number two is: If you break rule one, don't do it in front of other students.

And no, most teachers do NOT have a problem. Some do, and perhaps in some localities a local majority do, but most are in fact reasonably intelligent, dedicated people who are given 25 to 30 samples from the local society.

 

[FredGarvin]

Chi,

In all seriousness, I'd be interested to know where you think the line is between protecting young, fragile psyches and not doing the job as a teacher/disciplinarian should lies. When I read the OP I see the first half of the post as a girl who is nothing but bad attitude. I can not blame the teacher one bit. I also agree with Moonbear in that I saw nothing in the post about the teacher humiliating the girl in front of everyone.

Is simply a teacher calling a student out for not keeping up their responsibilities in class an excuse for this kind of behaviour?

 

[scorpa]

It's pretty well impossible to decide what side to take after reading only one, very biased side but just going from what the original poster said I have to say the teacher probably wasn't all that out of line. Number 1, it's the students job to be responsible and keep their gym clothes clean, it's not the teachers fault if they aren't responsible enough to maintain their equipment. In my gym class we would be in big trouble and be docked marks for not having proper gym strip...but hey if that happened we deserved it. We knew that we had to have it, so if we didn't there were consequences. The poster sounded like they had more than enough time to go to the bathroom before class, it's not like they used the time to change, and last time I checked you had to ask permission to leave the class even if it is just gym, no wonder the teacher got angry. The poster sounds like by this time they were pouting and not very happy in general, which means they probably weren't putting a whole lot of effort or enthusiasm into the circuit, go figure that the teacher would get mad. If the teacher was really being a jerk, I don't know, there's no way anyone here can, but if he was I apologize. Sounds to me like the kid deserved what she got. But this is coming from someone who loved gym class so maybe that makes me a bit biased lol.

 

[Astronuc]

In junior high, boys had to swim naked - in winter time no less. We never did understand why, because the boys swim team wore bathing suits. Apparently, the logic was that the staff did not want boys leaving wet trunks in metal lockers.

*prays to his God that this is a joke*

No, it is not a joke. The water was cold (indoor, non-heated pool), the air was cold, and it was no fun standing around naked waiting to get in the water, nor was it fun having to walk naked past the gym teacher.

It was humiliating for some, and there were those who didn't swim because of embarassment. And there were several parents who weren't happy about it. But that was 'policy' in a large urban junior high school.

But most just dealt with it.

 

[Astronuc]

Most of my math and science teachers were great, highly competent, and highly dedicated. But then I had the best teachers in the high school, since I was in the honors/AP courses. We also used college textbooks during junior and senior years.

Many teachers were not as good, and some were just burned out. It can be tough being a teacher, especially with 25-30 with a huge variation in skill and behavior. There are kids who want to learn and others who, for whatever reason, just don't want to do the work. And teenagers have a variety of emotional issues they are going through - and then there are those who have to deal with bad situations at home.

When I taught at university, my approach to talk to the class, and let them know I was there to work with them. If anyone had problems, I let them know I was available. If a student did poorly, I'd make an effort to find out and work with the student. It didn't always work though.

I see education as a partnership btween teacher and student - not a peer-to-peer relationship, but a mentor to protégé relationship. This is also my approach to management. Adversarial relationships are counter-productive and useless.

protégé - one who is protected or trained or whose career is furthered by a person of experience, prominence, or influence.

In the OP, I think the reference to once a month meant that she was menstruating, and the gym suit was 'unclean'. But Moonbear is right in that the student is responsible to have the gym suit cleaned, or have an extra gym suit just in case.

It does appear that the teacher mishandled the situation.

I would hope that pinapples can find a way to repair the relationship with the teacher, even though the class is only a PE class.

 

[jimmy p]

No, it is not a joke. The water was cold (indoor, non-heated pool), the air was cold, and it was no fun standing around naked waiting to get in the water, nor was it fun having to walk naked past the gym teacher.

Can't have done much to boost a guy's ego with all that cold air and water. Bet the girls got a giggle though.

 

[Averagesupernova]

I really can't believe that ONE post has made this thread this long. I would not be surprised if the whole incident didn't even happen and the OP is sitting back watching all of you go on and on and on and on and on and laughing uncontrollably about how it appears none of you have anything better to do. One post (her first and only post) does not warrant 5 pages worth of discussion.
-
Astro, I would say one possible reason that they made you swim nakey was to bring everyone down to the same level. Humiliate every last one of you and then build you up to what they want the same way the military does. Also, being disiplined while naked seems to have MUCH more effect.

 

[franzbaer]

I really can't believe that ONE post has made this thread this long. I would not be surprised if the whole incident didn't even happen and the OP is sitting back watching all of you go on and on and on and on and on and laughing uncontrollably about how it appears none of you have anything better to do. One post (her first and only post) does not warrant 5 pages worth of discussion.

Have you read TKC? One post, just one, spawned well over ten thousand replies. And it created me. The power of one post is not easily dismissed.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Actually franz, you have just illustrated my point VERY well. It could be any of us.

 

[franzbaer]

Actually franz, you have just illustrated my point VERY well. It could be any of us.

Maybe sullying with humans has lowered my intellegence, but I can't make head or tails of this. What could be any of us, how did I make your point? I don't get it?

 

[Astronuc]

I really can't believe that ONE post has made this thread this long. I would not be surprised if the whole incident didn't even happen and the OP is sitting back watching all of you go on and on and on and on and on and laughing uncontrollably about how it appears none of you have anything better to do. One post (her first and only post) does not warrant 5 pages worth of discussion.

That very well could be the case, which brings up the matters of "why people post" and "why do people post/write what they post/write".

For me, I give the poster the benefit of doubt and respond at my discretion.

The OP describes a conflict between student (ostensibly the poster) and teacher. That is probably not uncommon for the population at PF, most of whom appear to be students, and then there are those of us who have taught.

So my approach is to consider the sitution, whether fiction or not, and post my thoughts in hopes that it provides some help to the OP as well as to others who might find themselves in a similar situation.

I am afterall a perpertual student and teacher, and I am inherently and insatiably curious. I learn something new everyday, and I willingly share what I learn with others. Hopefully what I share is useful and meaningful to others.

 

[FredGarvin]

I really can't believe that ONE post has made this thread this long. I would not be surprised if the whole incident didn't even happen and the OP is sitting back watching all of you go on and on and on and on and on and laughing uncontrollably...

I thought the same thing too. It is indeed possible. I'd like to think we're off the radar for moronic trolling, but we may not be any longer.

One post (her first and only post) does not warrant 5 pages worth of discussion.

Start a thread that asks how a parent would handle a certain situation. I'd bet it would go on for ever. I think it's the same kind of thing here.

 

[Astronuc]

Perhaps we need a Dear Abby thread?

 

[arildno]

I didn't dress out for gym because my gymsuit was freaking nasty dirty.

You KNEW you were having gym today. Why did you CHOOSE not to get it cleaned before your lesson?
Why did you actively eschew something you knew might well happen?

Thats not a big deal, it's a once a month thing,

Sure it is. Now, you are trivializing your sabotage of your physical edfucation

but he SINGALED me out of the whole class for it

Which is something you deserve.

when two other ppl do this every day.

This isn't true, you know this.

Anyway, we were doing this fitness day thing. stuuuuuupid.

And you're not the one to refrain from saying so, and actively disrupt the teacher's plans for the day, are you?

So Then, I started walking to the locker room.

Who the heck gave you permission to do that?
Stop acting like a self-important brat.

He said, "Maggie where are you going?"

Perfectly rational behaviour from his side.

and I said "The bathroom" and he said "Finsih this first".

Again, correctly handled by him.

So I finished the stupid station I was at.

And you didn't bother from saying so, did you?

Then I went. I got back out, and he's mad at me!

He had every reason to be that.

"I said FINSIH this first!" and I was like, "I did!" and he said, "I meant the whole ting course!" HOW was I supposed to know??

Because he had said so to the entire class; what makes you so damn special?
Why do you deserve to get off lighter than others?

That doesn't even make sense!

Yes it does.


I could go on and on. You sound like an atrocious little spoiled brat.

 

[BobG]

Perhaps we need a Dear Abby thread?

Dear Abby, Dear Abby ...
My feet are too long
My hair's falling out and my rights are all wrong
My friends they all tell me that I've no friends at all
Won't you write me a letter, Won't you give me a call
Signed Bewildered

Bewildered, Bewildered...

You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood
... and quit bugging these people you keep calling friends

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
My fountain pen leaks
My wife hollers at me and my kids are all freaks
Every side I get up on is the wrong side of bed
If it weren't so expensive I'd wish I were dead
Signed Unhappy

Unhappy, Unhappy...
You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood
... and go whittle yourself a pencil


Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
You won't believe this
But my stomach makes noises whenever I kiss
My girlfriend tells me It's all in my head
But my stomach tells me to write you instead
Signed Noise-maker

Noise-maker, Noise-maker
You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood
... and don't drink Old Milwaukee on the same nights you have Pace Picante Sauce

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
Well I never thought
That me and my girlfriend would ever get caught
We were sitting in the back seat just shooting the breeze
With her hair up in curlers and her pants to her knees
Signed Just Married

Just Married, Just Married...
You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood
... and I hope your wife's name is Lorena

 

[Dawguard]

I could go on and on. You sound like an atrocious little spoiled brat.

Wow, arildno, you really say what you mean, don't you? I agree with you though, and I thank you for saying something I probably wouldn't have, but something that still needed saying.

 

[pineapples]

You're a spoiled little brat which means you are an average 8th grade kid. Just realize that in 5 or so years you'll realize what a little moron you were and you'll move on with your life. At least we hope so.

Nice first post. I can think of no better way to introduce yourself to a forum of strangers than an emo outburst. I want those 2 minutes of my life back that I used to read it.

Jason, I think I have to agree with Pallidin. Blanket statements like that to someone, who is obviously trolling for comments like that, are not productive and help no one.

Wow, you must be a really nice person FredGarvin. Just to let you know, this IS NOT my first post! God I'm not THAT stupid! My old screen name is totallyclueless, but I got a new one. OK??
Why bother coming here? If I show any opinion or personality at all, people say I need an "attitude adjustment" or people shoot me down just because I'm young and don't have a PhD!

 

[pineapples]

Ugh! I can't say anything on here without every word being analyzed, most of the time in a mean close-minded way! I asked if my teacher was out of line, NOT if you liked me or thought I was a brat!
You don't have to waste your lives reading or responding to this if you don't want to! Keep your rude comments to yourself

 

[pineapples]

OK, when I said he was ugly and wrinkly, I was obviously just being dramatic. I was really mad when I wrote that. That's just how I felt at the time. I should have said so. When I said I was sending hate vibes, I should have figured you wouldn't understand and think I sounded stupid. What's the word to explain it? I couldn't think of anything so I just said hate vibes. But I'm serious, there are two people in my class who NEVER dress out and one of them seriously does have way more attitude than me. He's never done that to her. And I'm not dramatizing the whole incident! He really upset me. I guess you had to be there. If you still think I'm a spoiled, stupid brat, you can just go right on thinking that. I've had people call me much worse than that but none of it is true.

 

[zeronem]

Ugh! I can't say anything on here without every word being analyzed, most of the time in a mean close-minded way! I asked if my teacher was out of line, NOT if you liked me or thought I was a brat!
You don't have to waste your lives reading or responding to this if you don't want to! Keep your rude comments to yourself

Then you posted this in the wrong place. You shouldn't post here if your not expecting every word and sentence to be analyzed by others thoroughly. All your going to run into at this forum are few Scientists and many Scientist wannabe's.

I suggest if you want to get nice answers, go to a forum that might be specifically for this topic.

 

[pineapples]

Well, with that last line, someone who was once an 8th grade girl is definitely going to respond.

The teacher is not out of line to chastise you for not wearing your gym suit. If it was to the point of being so "nasty filthy" that you couldn't stand to wear it, you should have taken it home to wash quite some time ago. The reason you're not supposed to participate in gym class in your street clothes is the same reason that gym suit is "nasty filthy," because you work up a sweat and stink, and by changing clothes, you aren't walking around subjecting everyone to that sweat and stink all day long (they might be more lenient if gym is your last class of the day and you're going straight home).

Having been an 8th grade girl once, the concept of letting your gym clothes get that nasty is, well, nasty in and of itself. We all took our gym clothes home on Friday, laundered them on the weekend, and returned with them on Monday. And we got yelled at and were not permitted to participate if we forgot our gym clothes on Monday (and yes, this led to the occassional frantic phone call to mom the moment the forgetfulness was realized, just hoping she'd be able to get out of work long enough to drop the gym clothes off at school before gym class, so we wouldn't get a 0 for the day for not participating due to lack of appropriate clothing, or we hoped our friends had enough spare clothing to make do).

There is also never any point in trying to justify your own misconduct by pointing out that others are doing it. There may be a very good reason the teacher doesn't chastise the others who do not change into gym clothing, such as they are already failing and it's not worth the hassle anymore. You have no way to know that, and it's none of your business. You know the rules and are supposed to follow them.

As for it being "stupid," I'm sure that's exactly the attitude the teacher picked up on. Instead of saying, "I'm sorry, I forgot to take my gym clothes home to wash and they are too dirty to wear today," or, "I know, I'm sorry, is it possible I could borrow some from somebody," you probably just rolled your eyes and muttered under your breath. That's the attitude that's coming across in the opening post.

By the way, there is also no reason that an honors student cannot get an A in gym class. Gym class is usually graded on effort and improvement much more than actual skill. I was horrible in gym class for anything that required running, because I'm just a slow runner. So, whether it was softball or soccer or the 600 meter run, I was the one who never made it to first base, or got the ball passed to me, and was dead last, huffing and puffing when I completed the run, but I always tried my hardest, worked on improving my skills, played my position even if everyone kept the ball away, once really surprised my class when they discovered I was great at free-throws in basketball because they had just come to assume I was hopelessly non-athletic, and always finished the run, even if I felt like I was going to die first. That attitude of trying to do your best, even when it's something you're absolutely awful at doing, is a good life skill to develop. Deciding it's "stupid" because you're not very good at it is called quitting, and that's not a good life skill to have.

Ooh, but then 8th grade was also the year we learned archery in gym class, and I finally found a sport I could beat the other students at. That was fun. And, I think it was also 8th grade when we did weight lifting. Thanks to the rate of physical development differing between boys and girls at that age, I had the immense pleasure of gloating that I was able to bench press more than one of the boys in my class who was on the JV football team. It's always fun when the "non-athletic, geeky" kid can beat someone on the football team at something in gym class, especially when that non-athletic, geeky kid is a girl.

Yeah, I know what you mean about the dirty clothes. I am so busy lately I really just kept forgetting to bring them home. I did try to borrow some but I couldn't.

 

[pineapples]

That she claims she was staring the teacher down and sending "anger vibes" tells me she was very likely copping an attitude. How do you NOT have an attitude when sending "anger vibes," whatever that is? I'm going to have to assume it's what was called "defiance" and "sass" when I was in school.

UGH FORGET about the stupid HATE VIBES! I was basically trying to express my anger without doing anything! WHATEVER! I don't know how to explain it! I sounded really stupid, I get it! It definitely wasn't defiance or sass, because he never gave me a chance to talk...

 

[pineapples]

In the OP, I think the reference to once a month meant that she was menstruating, and the gym suit was 'unclean'. But Moonbear is right in that the student is responsible to have the gym suit cleaned, or have an extra gym suit just in case.

Uhm, actually, noooo, that is not what I meant...

 

[pineapples]

Just for the record, I feel like a complete idiot. I got so wrapped up in my stupid anger because I had nothing better to worry about and for some reason I can't function without an issue in my brain. Not to mention, I kind of humiliated myself too and made people think I was a self-centered, spoiled little kid. Sorry for wasting your lives! Look what I've caused! URGH.