Was My Gym Teacher Out of Line?

[Pengwuino]

In junior high, boys had to swim naked - in winter time no less. We never did understand why, because the boys swim team wore bathing suits. Apparently the logic was that the staff did not want boys leaving wet trunks in metal lockers.

*prays to his God that this is a joke*

 

[russ_watters]

I have a pretty high opinion of most teachers. But gym teachers? Ehh...

 

[Pengwuino]

I have a pretty low opinion of most teachers. They always (before high school) tend to be the dreamy "i can save the world personally" types that barely got into college and really have no business attempting to educate our children. They kinda act a bit irrational and all seem to have this artsy lightheaded personality. While it's great for all this creativity bs, it doesn't sustain an economy.

High school teachers don't act that way however. I can't really make a generalization about the teachers I've had personally. College professors just love their job it seems... except lecturers there part time haha.

 

[JasonRox]

There you go again! Why?
In my opinion, educators are under-appreciated and under-paid.

It's an inside comment you clearly don't understand. It's actually a good thing to think that way, but I won't bother to explain because it's just not practical to explain on here.

If you want to know, read about Stoic Ethics and then read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius.

 

[Pengwuino]

It's not practical to explain so you tell them to go read a whole book?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Pineapples: Everyone else seems to have covered the bases. The only thing I would add is that if you think that this teacher has some issue with 'gifted' students and singles them out then find a few others who are subject to this as well and speak with a teacher or whom ever else is part of the 'gifted' student program. Whom ever is part of it should likely be sympathetic and if you have multiple real examples of harassment then something may be done about it. Realize though that this teacher is unlikely to be fired for any minor offense and if he thinks that you have 'snitched' then he will regard you as even more of an enemy than he already does. It may be a good idea anyway though so that incase one day he does go way too far there will be past complaints showing his tendancies. First though be sure you are not overreacting.

 

[JasonRox]

It's not practical to explain so you tell them to go read a whole book?

That's why it isn't practical to explain!

You really do need to read about the amount of a book. Not only that, you should also discuss it with someone who knows philosophy very well (professor).

Although I understand it, I'm not the person to discuss things with. So if I attempt to explain anything, you will come up with questions that I may be able to answer... then you will assume the theory falls apart because I can't answer a particular question, which in turn does not give the theory any justice.

 

[fourier jr]

Rach3 is right. There are many situations in life where you just have to accept that the person you are up against is holding all the cards and you have no choice but to treat them that way. Whether it is the cop who pulled you over for speeding or a dumb gas company employee who'se only goal in life is to avoid being hassled (a current thorn in my side), swallowing your pride and accepting that they are god of their little kingdom is the easiest way to avoid a conflict (you want to avoid a conflict with someone you can't beat).

This is a critical life skill you are learning here.

sadly, i have to agree. after living with my dad (similar bully/coward grade 8 teacher) i can definitely vouch for that. if you get on a teacher's bad side, you can NEVER win. take it from me, it's a virtual law of nature that a schoolteacher will never see things a student's way. after many years of putting up with **** like what pineapples put up with virtually on a daily basis i have yet to come across an exception to this rule. i also happened to go to the school my dad teaches at for grades 6-8 & i noticed similar (successful, as a rule) attempts to degrade & disrespect the students there from the other teachers. one of my dad's favorite sayings is "the nail that sticks out most gets hit the hardest"; conspicuously absent is any reference to learning or self-improvement of any kind. from my experience at that school anyway it was more about control, coercion, manipulation & obedience rather than any real learning.

 

[pallidin]

There are many situations in life where you just have to accept that the person you are up against is holding all the cards and you have no choice but to treat them that way.
This is a critical life skill you are learning here.

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

 

[Moonbear]

Not a single reply from anyone who has been a girl in the 8th grade? Or at least from someone who has had a daughter in the 8th grade?

My daughter failed a semester of gym class because she didn't want to be seen in a swim suit - unfortunately, she managed to keep it quiet until she'd already failed the class. It boggled my mind how someone on the soccer team could fail gym class, resulting in being ineligible for the soccer team for a semester, let alone someone who would have made the honor roll except for the F.

It isn't rational - it's being a girl in the 8th grade.

Well, with that last line, someone who was once an 8th grade girl is definitely going to respond.

The teacher is not out of line to chastise you for not wearing your gym suit. If it was to the point of being so "nasty filthy" that you couldn't stand to wear it, you should have taken it home to wash quite some time ago. The reason you're not supposed to participate in gym class in your street clothes is the same reason that gym suit is "nasty filthy," because you work up a sweat and stink, and by changing clothes, you aren't walking around subjecting everyone to that sweat and stink all day long (they might be more lenient if gym is your last class of the day and you're going straight home).

Having been an 8th grade girl once, the concept of letting your gym clothes get that nasty is, well, nasty in and of itself. We all took our gym clothes home on Friday, laundered them on the weekend, and returned with them on Monday. And we got yelled at and were not permitted to participate if we forgot our gym clothes on Monday (and yes, this led to the occassional frantic phone call to mom the moment the forgetfulness was realized, just hoping she'd be able to get out of work long enough to drop the gym clothes off at school before gym class, so we wouldn't get a 0 for the day for not participating due to lack of appropriate clothing, or we hoped our friends had enough spare clothing to make do).

There is also never any point in trying to justify your own misconduct by pointing out that others are doing it. There may be a very good reason the teacher doesn't chastise the others who do not change into gym clothing, such as they are already failing and it's not worth the hassle anymore. You have no way to know that, and it's none of your business. You know the rules and are supposed to follow them.

As for it being "stupid," I'm sure that's exactly the attitude the teacher picked up on. Instead of saying, "I'm sorry, I forgot to take my gym clothes home to wash and they are too dirty to wear today," or, "I know, I'm sorry, is it possible I could borrow some from somebody," you probably just rolled your eyes and muttered under your breath. That's the attitude that's coming across in the opening post.

By the way, there is also no reason that an honors student cannot get an A in gym class. Gym class is usually graded on effort and improvement much more than actual skill. I was horrible in gym class for anything that required running, because I'm just a slow runner. So, whether it was softball or soccer or the 600 meter run, I was the one who never made it to first base, or got the ball passed to me, and was dead last, huffing and puffing when I completed the run, but I always tried my hardest, worked on improving my skills, played my position even if everyone kept the ball away, once really surprised my class when they discovered I was great at free-throws in basketball because they had just come to assume I was hopelessly non-athletic, and always finished the run, even if I felt like I was going to die first. That attitude of trying to do your best, even when it's something you're absolutely awful at doing, is a good life skill to develop. Deciding it's "stupid" because you're not very good at it is called quitting, and that's not a good life skill to have.

Ooh, but then 8th grade was also the year we learned archery in gym class, and I finally found a sport I could beat the other students at. That was fun. And, I think it was also 8th grade when we did weight lifting. Thanks to the rate of physical development differing between boys and girls at that age, I had the immense pleasure of gloating that I was able to bench press more than one of the boys in my class who was on the JV football team. It's always fun when the "non-athletic, geeky" kid can beat someone on the football team at something in gym class, especially when that non-athletic, geeky kid is a girl.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Yep, humble pie doesn't taste good but sometimes you have to eat it.

Humiliation can also be seen as asserting power over another by showing ones dominance. That can be translated as abuse real quick like. No matter if an 8th grader pushed buttons or not, public humiliation has no place in any school. Some kids with superior minds can be emotionally and socially sensitive.

 

[Moonbear]

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

In a gym class? How much "outside-the-box" thinking is developed in a gym class? Russ is right, it's an important skill to learn to recognize when it's worth making a big fuss over something and fighting the system, and when it's just better to say, "I'm sorry," even if you really aren't, and put it behind you so you can move forward with other things you need to get done.

 

[Pengwuino]

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

It dicates an ordered world. Letting kids have their way in a school has never been tried for various obvious reasons

 

[Pengwuino]

In a gym class? How much "outside-the-box" thinking is developed in a gym class? Russ is right, it's an important skill to learn to recognize when it's worth making a big fuss over something and fighting the system, and when it's just better to say, "I'm sorry," even if you really aren't, and put it behind you so you can move forward with other things you need to get done.

What do they say, "You're as big of a person as the things that set you off" or something.

Thus, i am microscopic.

 

[pallidin]

Yep, humble pie doesn't taste good but sometimes you have to eat it.

Humiliation can also be seen as asserting power over another by showing ones dominance. That can be translated as abuse real quick like. No matter if an 8th grader pushed buttons or not, public humiliation has no place in any school. Some kids with superior minds can be emotionally and socially sensitive.

I MUST AGREEE.

Peer humiliation of an 8th-grader by an educator has NO PLACE, NO REASON, and NO JUSTIFICATION.

Do it in military "boot camps" with adult enlistee's? Fine.
Don't do it with minors. They WILL end-up HATING authority. Get it?

 

[pallidin]

...Letting kids have their way in a school has never been tried for various obvious reasons

I would NEVER advocate having any kid have "their own way" in school, or elsewise. What I am against is "superiority-complex" teachers that openly demean the student; damaging their fragile psyche.
Damage? Oh yes.

 

[Pengwuino]

Very very few have superiority-complexes... that's an absurd generalization

 

[Moonbear]

I MUST AGREEE.

Peer humiliation of an 8th-grader by an educator has NO PLACE, NO REASON, and NO JUSTIFICATION.

Do it in military "boot camps" with adult enlistee's? Fine.
Don't do it with minors. They WILL end-up HATING authority. Get it?

From the description provided, the teacher did not do anything to humiliate the student in front of others. He has to enforce the rules, so it is his obligation to say something about inappropriate attire.

And, being told to finish what you're doing before being excused to leave, especially when you did not ask permission prior to walking out, is also reasonable behavior for a teacher. Again, teachers are responsible for their students' whereabouts, so you can't just allow them to wander off wherever and whenever they want. A student should always ask and obtain permission before leaving the classroom for any reason.

The remainder of the discussion took place in the teacher's office, which is NOT in front of all the other students, and is the appropriate place for the more stern disciplinary action, including calling one's parents. That she claims she was staring the teacher down and sending "anger vibes" tells me she was very likely copping an attitude. How do you NOT have an attitude when sending "anger vibes," whatever that is? I'm going to have to assume it's what was called "defiance" and "sass" when I was in school.

 

[jimmie]

I do not agree with any instructor that temporarily prohibits any student from going to the bathroom, whether that student asked for permission or not.

When you got to go, you got to go.

 

[fourier jr]

Most teachers are messed up. It's no wonder teachers don't have the respect they used to have.

i had a couple awesome teachers in high school; the middle school (grades 6-8) teachers (my dad's colleagues) were generally very messed up though. what they did didn't seem to have a lot to do with learning & had everything to do with 'babysitting'.

from www.maledicta.org, the website of the international journal of verbal aggression, "attitude" is roughly defined as follows (learned when the publisher/editor spent time in prison):

the display of annoyance, hostility, contempt, courage, or an unbroken spirit toward the insecure, authoritarian prison staff and questioning their actions -- all severely disapproved of and punished.

(could easily replace "prison staff" with "middle-school teacher", from my experience anyway)

 

[Dawguard]

In a gym class? How much "outside-the-box" thinking is developed in a gym class? Russ is right, it's an important skill to learn to recognize when it's worth making a big fuss over something and fighting the system, and when it's just better to say, "I'm sorry," even if you really aren't, and put it behind you so you can move forward with other things you need to get done.

Very true, some times you just have to ignore it, get on with life and not be thin-skinned about it. As for the "damaging psyche", this is a dangerous path to take. Of course we don't want to abuse any child, far be it for me to advocate that. Sometimes however, a little competition, failure, telling-off, etc., does far more good then bad. There is an inherent danger of over-coddling children so when they become adolesents they don't understand the real world. We don't want our children to think that life is all sweet, fuzzy and comfortable, and if anyone insults you or doesn't give you things then it just isn't fair.
It is very easy to cross this line to over-protection, and recent examples of teachers using purple ink instead of red in order not to "offend" or "damage" the children, or tag being banned on the playground of another school because there will be loosers, and the school doesn't want children to feel like loosers. This line is very easy, far to easy, to cross and I would prefer to ere on overing discipline opposed to not enough. Certainly a balance is needed, but it is much easier and far more dangerous to over-protect then over-correct.

It is also a fallacy that children and young people all have fragile psyches. Sure they're kids, but they are far more resiliant then most would like to believe.

 

[russ_watters]

Would not such an attitude propagate a repressive learning environment, dictating only "in-the-box" thinking and ideals?

No - since you can't win either way, it does nothing to change the situation except to ensure that you don't make the situation worse by adding to a conflict you can't win. In this case, fighting back just means you're going to keep getting hit.

I'm sure everyone has see or heard of situations with police stops where the driver becomes unruly. Whether or not the police officer has done something to aggrivate the driver (some cops are jerks), lashing out at the the police officer always just serves to make things worse. I once had a situation where I was pulled over for making an illegal U-turn at a navy base after 9/11, when half the parking lots were blocked off (so there was nowhere to turn around). The base police (not real police) stood there and insulted me openly, both to my face, then between themselves, back next to their car. Since they couldn't actually do anything to me (not even a fine), I just sat there and agreed with them that I'm an idiot, stroked their egos, etc., because that was the most expedient way to dispose of the situation.

 

[pallidin]

Very very few have superiority-complexes... that's an absurd generalization

I'm clearly saying that IF an educator demeans a minor student in front of his/her peers, that this is against standard norms of educator practice, and potentially psychologically damaging to the minor student. That is a fact.
That ANY educator would do this tells me(no I'm NOT sorry), that they have issues, be it "superiority" or otherwise.

 

[Vincent Vega]

The "anger vibes" could be a reaction to a sense and her way of describing it.

Emotional and social sensitivity -- an acute awareness of other people and the environment -- allows a child to sense the emotional temperature in a room, heightened tension, for example.

The tongue can cut deeper than a sword. What damage was done, was done in front of a crowd. Perhaps it triggered anxiety? Walking away from that situation isn't uncommon, as it could be followed by nausea, shortness of breath and other symptoms.

 

[Pengwuino]

What the heck is emotional temperature

 

[Moonbear]

I do not agree with any instructor that temporarily prohibits any student from going to the bathroom, whether that student asked for permission or not.

When you got to go, you got to go.

Except when they just came FROM the lockerroom to start gym class. If she wasn't changing her clothes, then she had ample time to use the restroom before class began. It sounds more like she was pouting, and the teacher knew exactly what she was up to.

Has nobody even considered that the teacher may be given this student a harder time than the other two kids who habitually break the rules because he thinks she IS capable of doing better? Sometimes a teacher tries to push a student they know can achieve more.

First, all the teacher did was "single her out" for not wearing her gym clothes. That could have been nothing more than, "Maggie, why aren't you changed into gym clothes?" The next thing we're told is she tries to walk out of class without permission...considering the attitude, it sounds like it was likely pouting, all because she was corrected for doing something she knows she shouldn't do. The teacher tells her to finish the exercise before leaving, again, nothing unusual there. Get the student engaged in the assignment and set the problem aside as taken care of.

Sorry, but I don't think you're "damaging a fragile psyche" by correcting a student when they do something wrong and then get defiant when told they are wrong. Nothing in the opening post indicates any sort of "dressing down." It just says the teacher threatened to call her parents. We're also only getting one side of the story. "It's all the big, bad, mean teacher's fault for getting me in trouble for something I did that I knew I wasn't supposed to do." If their psyche is that fragile, then they need to seek professional help and present a note from their doctor to the teacher that says they require special consideration. 8th grade is too old to be running off crying because you got in trouble for not following the rules.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm not generalizing anyone! I'm clearly saying that IF an educator demeans a minor student in front of his/her peers...

But there is nothing in this story that indicates she was demeaned in front of her peers. The teacher may have spoken a bit out of frustration over the attitude, and the generalization to all G/T students was inappropriate, but that was all done privately, not in front of the whole class. Though, perhaps the teacher should have simply done what my teachers did if a student broke rules and then got defiant about it...send her to the principal's office. But, I'm sure that would have been considered "public humiliation" too. There's just way too much coddling going on anymore, and it's starting to show its effects in the college-aged population as well now. They just can't resolve simple, common conflicts on their own that any adult ought to be able to resolve. (Yes, there are exceptions of more mature students, but they are becoming too much of an exception rather than the rule.)

 

[shmoe]

The remainder of the discussion took place in the teacher's office, which is NOT in front of all the other students, and is the appropriate place for the more stern disciplinary action, including calling one's parents.

It sounded like the other students were watching through the window though, not exactly private. Who knows though, we have only one very biased view of what happened.

I liked your (Moonbear) gym story. I was always the small geeky kid and we never played the sports in gym that I did outside school and was competent at (badminton and soccer). In grade 9 we did a weightlifting unit. I was the smallest in the class, but years of soccer my legs were by far the strongest, so that was a fun few days (very weak upper body though- heavier textbooks have since improved this!).


Anyhoo, gym at this age is all about suffering. Whatever terrible things I remember happening, I never had to swim naked in the winter in gym class so it could have been worse.

 

[loseyourname]

Since they couldn't actually do anything to me (not even a fine), I just sat there and agreed with them that I'm an idiot, stroked their egos, etc., because that was the most expedient way to dispose of the situation.

I'll never forget an incident at the corner of Katella Ave. and Disneyland Dr., right in front of the park, where the freeway exit merges with the entrance to the Mickey and Friends parking structure. I was on my way out and needed to make a U-turn, but the light had just changed. The intersection is huge, so I knew it was going to be a while until my light came around. However, the way the light situation was set up, no one was going in the direction I wanted to go in, and the crosswalk was wide enough to fit my car through, so I figured I'd just go, and since I wasn't going to physically enter the intersection anyway, it would be fine.

Of course, there was a cop right there that I never even saw, and he immediately pulled me over. When he asked me what I was doing, I just said that I didn't want to wait, knew what I was doing posed no actual danger to anyone, so I did it, even though it was illegal, and I would gladly accept the consequences. I still got fined, but that's about the only time a cop has cited me for something without giving me any **** about it. It really makes me wonder about the accuracy of Hunter Thompson's statement regarding the cop psychology in Fear and Loathing (about slowing down too quickly and showing fear when being pulled over resulting in the arousing of contempt in the cop heart). Sure, you don't want to challenge them, but you don't want to show weakness or be overly apologetic, either. Let him know that you acknowledge his legal power over you, but make sure he always knows that he has no psychological power over you, and that it is a wasted effort of his to try and abuse such a power.

Anyway, to the original poster, I would have just whipped it out and pissed on the workout station, but that's just me. I was a real 'attitude-problem' in middle school. I did my homework and aced my tests, but outside of that, never let a teacher tell me what to do and made sure they knew that they had no power over me (after all, the best they could do was kick me out of one class and put me into another equally good class - it's not like I was committing expulsion-level offenses).

That's what you have to realize about middle school. That crap they tell you about a permanent record is completely false. Even a juvenile criminal record is usually expunged when you reach adulthood. No college gives one hoot what you did in middle school, and all that high schools care is that you graduated, which you can do even if you are constantly getting in trouble (heck, I got straight As, set a school record for the mile, and won the school money on a game show in middle school despite being a defiant troublemaker). Ultimately, the only control they exercise over you rests upon their ability to instill fear in you. They call your parents, send you to the ALC, suspend you from classes, yell at you. So what? None of this changes the one thing that actually matters in middle school - your getting a passing grade in all of your classes. Just so long as you realize the insignificance of every form of punishment they can level at you short of failing and expulsion, and don't fear these forms of punishment, all that is left for you to do is to not commit offenses that can result in failure or expulsion, and you'll be fine. Other than that, you are free, something that every schoolmaster hopes the students never realize.

That said, I'm only siding with you because I've been an 8th grade gifted/talented student that was bored with pointless classes in which I learned little to nothing; I've never been a schoolteacher trying my darndest to deal with punk kids like me. I'm with everyone here that says you need to learn to pick your battles and only fight the ones you can win. However, the fact is that you're never going to know your own limits until you've pushed yourself to them. The only way to learn what battles you can and can't win is to fight every one and see which ones you lose; you're not going to learn it by listening to adults that are simply going to tell you to always do as authority figures say.

 

[zeronem]

I have a pretty low opinion of most teachers. They always (before high school) tend to be the dreamy "i can save the world personally" types that barely got into college and really have no business attempting to educate our children. They kinda act a bit irrational and all seem to have this artsy lightheaded personality. While it's great for all this creativity bs, it doesn't sustain an economy.

High school teachers don't act that way however. I can't really make a generalization about the teachers I've had personally. College professors just love their job it seems... except lecturers there part time haha.

Alright I can agree. I work at the college and spend my time tutoring High School students as my job. The students I am tutoring have incredible potential. But you know what, there is absolutely something wrong with America's school system. Teachers of grade school, particularly in the area of High School and Junior High are failing to reach these students. When I was in High School it was a complete joke. All I did was turn in my homework and make Straight A's. I never studied throughout all that. So I decided if the High School can't challenge me then I would have to challenge myself. So then I started getting into some heavy duty reading of Mathematics and Physics books.

Alright back to the subject anyways. I had to tutor this High School student who was working on formulating equations to describe situations about Exponential increase or decrease. An important part of solving some of these problems is through the use of Logarithms. I tutored the student on how to use the logarithm to solve for x. It's the only way to solve for x unless you want to guess some values of x that would work, which is not what you should do. Anyways, He showed his teacher this method and the teacher said to him, "Is this a new kind of math?" A ****ing high school teacher said that! How is this teacher teaching this class specifically about equations describing situations of exponential increase or decrease without the use of logarithms to be able to solve for the independent variable?

****, you shouldn't be teaching Algebra II in High School if you don't have any idea wtf a logarithm is.

Here's what happening, all the cool teachers teach college students at colleges, and all the lazy ****ty teachers teach grade school. Teaching is a performance job. I didn't realize that teaching was a performance job until I went to college and watched teachers actually perform. In High School, teachers are not performing. This is why America's school system is ****ty. This reminds me when they gave an american class of high school students a test and went across the ocean and gave a class of high school students in Belgium the same test, the students in belgium all scored dramatically higher then the students in America.

I won't lie to you though, I remember there would always be one of those rare High School Teachers that would actually perform and teach.

I'm sure you guys are all aware of the various problems with America's education system. Something needs to be done about it. Way to many students are having to take intermediary algebra in college right after they just got out of High School. In High School every student has to go up to Algebra II in math. Either the students are drinking beer and smoking entirely to much weed during weekend parties, or the teachers are just not performing and they themselves are smoking entirely to much weed.

This is all purely opinionated, but you know what I think there's a lot of truth in it.