Water waves - is this reflection, or refraction, or both?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of water waves as they encounter different mediums, specifically focusing on the concepts of reflection and refraction in a ripple tank setup. Participants explore how the presence of a glass slide affects wave properties such as wavelength and direction, considering both theoretical and practical implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that water slows down over shallow areas due to interference from the ground, leading to changes in wave characteristics.
  • There is a proposal that when a glass slide is placed at an angle, it causes refraction rather than reflection, as the wave interacts with the slide.
  • One participant interprets that the depth reduction caused by the glass slide leads to shorter wavelengths, possibly due to reflection off the bottom.
  • Another participant argues that the bending of waves at an angle is analogous to light refraction, suggesting that the wave direction changes when entering shallower water.
  • Concerns are raised about the nature of wave propagation, with some participants questioning the feasibility of water waves refracting into a solid medium like glass.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the motion of water particles, with one participant emphasizing that surface waves involve both transverse and longitudinal oscillations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of wave behavior at the interface of water and glass, with no consensus reached on the nature of reflection versus refraction in this context.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about wave behavior in shallow water and the interaction with solid boundaries, which may not be universally accepted or fully resolved within the discussion.

Steve143
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http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9712/refractionk.jpg

Now my understanding is that water slows down when it goes over a shallow area because the ground under the shallow water is interfering with the wave. When this happens the wave becomes more transverse which I guess is due to reflection as the wave is hitting the ground under it, perhaps the bottom part of the wave is being reflected and the rest of it is not.

When the slide is at an angle why is it refraction and not reflection since the wave is actually hitting it the glass slide?

It becomes abit more confusing when you take into account that the top of the wave is traveling through air (the more transverse the wave is the more this happens), and the rest of it is traveling through water, which might result in refraction too, but the image suggests the slide is the cause of the refraction.
 
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Steve143 said:
When the slide is at an angle why is it refraction and not reflection since the wave is actually hitting it the glass slide?
From the picture, I'm kind of getting that the glass slide is placed horizontally (parallel to the ground) and so the depth in that area is less than in the tank as a whole. Having the slide at an angle just bends the phase lines (and hence the nominal ray path). Is that what you see?

It becomes abit more confusing when you take into account that the top of the wave is traveling through air (the more transverse the wave is the more this happens)
How do you get that?
 
The way I'm interpreting it like this:

If a small glass is plate is placed in the centre of the ripple tank, the depth of the water is reduced. As waves enter this region we can see that their wavelength becomes shorter
when the slide is flat on the bottom of the tank the wavelength is reduced. (as far as I know this is because the wave touches the bottom and is probably reflected off it)

if the bountry between the shallow water and the deep water is at an angle to th direction in which the waves are moving, the direction of the waves changes. We say the waves have been refracted
When the slide is at an angle the wave is refracted.

How do you get that?
I think of sea waves, the parts of the wave that are higher than the rest of the water are moving through air

This explanation contradicts the text
Waves through the water are oscillations in the displacement of the water molecules, up and down - it is not possible in any at all straight-forward way for such waves to propagate through into a solid medium like glass, as would have to occur for the waves to be refracted. Of course a solid like glass can support oscillations traveling through it, but at frequencies so very much higher than those you would create in a ripple tank (approx a million times) that on meeting the glass, the wave would essentially be entirely reflected.
 
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Steve143 said:
The way I'm interpreting it like this:

when the slide is flat on the bottom of the tank the wavelength is reduced.
I think you may be misreading the description:

"If a small glass is plate is placed in the centre of the ripple tank, the depth of the water is reduced."

The glass plate is parallel to the bottom but not flat on the bottom (or else why would it matter?). This makes the water above the glass plate effectively shallower.

(as far as I know this is because the wave touches the bottom and is probably reflected off it)
It's because the phase speed of shallow water waves decreases as the water depth gets smaller.

When the slide is at an angle the wave is refracted.
Figure 11.16 is a top down view. From the description:

"If the boundary between the shallow water and the deep water is at an angle to the direction in which the waves are moving, the direction of the waves changes."

The bending of the wave direction is just like the bending of light rays as they pass through an pair of interfaces or a lens or whatever.

I think of sea waves, the parts of the wave that are higher than the rest of the water are moving through air
As it happens, the water particles are hardly moving at all. But this has nothing at all to do with the wave refraction effect being described.
 
Waves through the water are oscillations in the displacement of the water molecules, up and down -
Not sure where this is first mentioned but it is not correct. Surface waves in water involve both transverse and longitudinal oscillation of the water. The motion is, in fact, circular in deep water (just watch a cork floating on a wave, from the side) and the radius of the circle is maximum on the surface and zero at the bottom.
The motion of the particles throughout the water is a combination of longitudinal and transverse waves and the boundary conditions at the bottom can be regarded as producing a reflection on the bottom so that the reflected and direct waves will interfere (diffract) to produce a non circular motion (peaky) and a net wave speed that is less as the water gets shallower.
 

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