What are the equations for the quadratic and power laws in unstable systems?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equations governing the behavior of unstable systems, specifically focusing on the quadratic law in short time frames and the power law in long time frames. Participants explore the implications of these laws in various contexts, including quantum mechanics and radioactive decay.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that unstable systems typically decay exponentially, but can exhibit quadratic behavior in the short term and power law behavior in the long term.
  • Another participant interprets the behavior of unstable systems as generally exponential, with quadratic approximations being valid for small time values, while the full exponential series applies for larger time values.
  • A participant notes that not all transitions follow an exponential law, citing examples such as atomic state transitions in external fields and neutral meson oscillations, which can exhibit sinusoidal behavior leading to quadratic approximations.
  • There is a discussion on whether transitions purely follow exponential laws or if they can deviate, with some arguing that many processes can be approximated by linear or quadratic equations in specific ranges.
  • One participant mentions the Quantum Zeno effect, suggesting that certain interactions can reset decay processes, leading to questions about how observation affects decay probabilities over time spans.
  • Another participant clarifies that the decay probability of a single isotope does not change at any given moment but can change over a time span, emphasizing the statistical nature of decay in larger samples.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of decay laws, with some asserting that exponential decay is the norm while others highlight exceptions and the applicability of quadratic and power laws in specific contexts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the generality of these laws across different systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions, such as the dependence on time scales and the limitations of measurement precision in experiments, which may affect the applicability of different decay models.

Trollfaz
Messages
144
Reaction score
16
http://www.nat.vu.nl/~tvisser/nonexponential.pdf
I always thought that an unstable system will decay exponentially but I recently learned that it obeys the quadratic law in the short time and power law in the long time. Can somebody tell me the equation that governs the quadratic law and power law?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Without reading the paper or knowing which part you refer to, I would interpret it as follows:
The general behavior is exponential, which means ##t \longmapsto e^t = 1 + t + \frac{1}{2}t^2 + \frac{1}{6}t^3 + \frac{1}{24}t^4 + \ldots##. This works in all cases. Now if we consider short term behavior, which means values of ##t## close to zero, it is sufficient to look at the leading terms, e.g. until the order of two which would be the quadratic approximation: ##t \longmapsto 1 + t + \frac{1}{2}t^2 +R## with a pretty small value ##R##. The long term behavior, i.e. values of ##t## greater than one, on the other hand requires to consider the entire series, which means an exponential behavior.
Of course one could as well consider other numbers ##a \neq e## as basis, or add a factor ##c\cdot e^t##, but this doesn't change the qualitative statement given. And in some cases (very small values for ##t \approx 0##), it might be sufficient to only look at the linear approximation ##t \longmapsto 1+t +R'##.
 
fresh_42 said:
And in some cases (very small values for ##t \approx 0##),
Or very small compared to the half-life, ##t \ll t_{1/2}##.
 
Not every transition between states follows an exponential law. Transitions between different atomic states in an external field are one example, neutral meson oscillations are another one. They can have sinusoidal oscillations between the states, and if you approximate this for very small time differences, it follows a quadratic law (with zero linear coefficient) as ##\cos(x) \approx 1 - \frac 1 2 x^2##. The Quantum Zeno effect uses such a system to suppress changes by repeated observations.
 
So some transitions will purely follow the exponential law while others will deviate at short and long times?
 
Trollfaz said:
So some transitions will purely follow the exponential law while others will deviate at short and long times?
No. In general they follow a single rule, not necessarily but most often. The point is that many processes, some listed above, can be approximated by linear or quadratic equations in certain ranges. E.g. ##t_{1/2} = 4,500,000,000 ## years for ##{}^{238}U##. If one has a sample in the laboratory and you measure ##\alpha -##decays, then the result will only depend on the amount of isotopes and only linearly on time, i.e. you have a linear behavior although the overall rule is not. You simply can't measure the terms of higher order in a short time. @mfb gave you an example of an oscillating process which can be approximated by a quadratic equation. It simply makes no sense to calculate with ##10## valid digits if the experiment can only measure two.
 
mfb said:
The Quantum Zeno effect uses such a system to suppress changes by repeated observations
I suppose that only certain interactions is able to reset the decay. Say repeatedly shooting a photon
at an excited electron that is about to decay will keep it excited.

And fresh_42 does this mean that the probability that the atom decay at any given time changes?
 
Last edited:
Trollfaz said:
And fresh_42 does this mean that the probability that the atom decay at any given time changes?
Not at any given time, but over a given time span. The longer you observe the sample, the more isotopes will have been decayed (radiocarbon dating). A single isotope doesn't know anything about the past or the future (Schrödinger's cat). You can only have statistical statements about many of them or about a time span, usually both.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K