What are the factors to consider when asking someone out via email?

[russ_watters]

Yes, Russ, assertive is a good word I kept not quite finding.

And to clarify what that means, "assertive" is simply making the first move. As someone else pointed out, your odds may not be all that great in asking out a complete stranger, but the odds are zero in not asking.

 

[Moonbear]

My view, in short, is that many women want a confident and assertive man, but that does not mean they want a dominant man.

Precisely. Dominance would imply an imbalance and a power struggle, which I don't think is ever good in a relationship. Confidence and assertiveness just means you'll speak your opinion...it doesn't mean you'll always get your way, just that you'll speak up and say what it is you want, and the woman can do the same, and thus all those silly guessing games are out of the picture, which opens up real communication.

 

[honestrosewater]

Its directly playing on instinctual evolutionary processes whether you like it or not. Females are geared to be submissive, males are geared to be dominant. Look at most any species.

In other words, you are conceding that I was right the whole time; the message, whether it is delivered jokingly or seriously, is to be understood in the context of a dominant-submissive relationship, with the message sender in the dominant role.

You're very close to concluding that dominant = abusive, controlling, narcisistic.

No, I'm not. In fact, I have made statements that are inconsistent with that.

A few decades of feminism can't overcome 2 million years of evolution.

Well, if you fleshed out a little what kind of behaviors count as overcoming 2 million years of evolution here, I might just be a counterexample to it. I seriously doubt your approach would work on me, assuming I was sober and all that jazz.

And to everyone else to whom it applies: Please stop saying that I said things that I didn't say. I realize it's GD, but it's still PF.

 

[honestrosewater]

You originated the use of those words, in post 75.

Will you please show me where I said otherwise? Okay, sorry, that's mean. You don't have to. I didn't say otherwise. If you are wondering where I was borrowing them from, it's just various papers and such on animal behavior, gender roles, ethics, and such. They seemed pretty common. I was pointing out that I was borrowing the terms in case anyone was assigning some special significance to them.

If people stop putting words in my mouth, I will gladly leave.

 

[nsimmons]

. I seriously doubt your approach would work on me, assuming I was sober and all that jazz.

No one agrees with anything you've said. You're not willing to discuss things, just defend your position with personal speculation.

You keep coming back to "wont work on me". Guess what no ones talking about you. Stop interjecting yourself as the subject of discussion. Topic here is whether in general email is a good idea and what techniques work to attract a woman. Not what techniques work on honestrosewater.

Reminds me of a study I read about in a psyc class. One girl argued with the prof admitantly that its not valid, because she wouldn't react the way women in the study did. This is exactly what your doing, posing opinion vs established fact. She as well as yourself don't get 'it'.

 

[honestrosewater]

Dont worry, you have the personality most guys would avoid like the plague. Reasoning with you is like talking to a brick. No one agrees with anything you've said. You're not willing to discuss things, just defend your position with personal speculation.

You keep coming back to "wont work on me". Guess what no ones talking about you. Stop interjecting yourself as the subject of discussion. Topic here is whether in general email is a good idea and what techniques work to attract a woman. Not what techniques work on honestrosewater.

Reminds me of a study I read about in a psyc class. One girl argued with the prof admitantly that its not valid, because she wouldn't react the way women in the study did. This is exactly what your doing, posing opinion vs established fact. She as well as yourself don't get 'it'.

You didn't quantify your statements. I assumed they were universal and offered myself as a counterexample because I don't like it when people put forward as fact things that are demonstrably false.

As for the rest, I don't care enough to argue. As I just said, if you stop putting words in my mouth, I will gladly leave.

 

[russ_watters]

Will you please show me where I said otherwise? Okay, sorry, that's mean. You don't have to. I didn't say otherwise. If you are wondering where I was borrowing them from, it's just various papers and such on animal behavior, gender roles, ethics, and such. They seemed pretty common. I was pointing out that I was borrowing the terms in case anyone was assigning some special significance to them.

If people stop putting words in my mouth, I will gladly leave.

The way you said it in your last post implied that others here used the word first. So I guess you weren't putting words in their mouths with that statement. But regardless - if you got the words elsewhere and injected them into this discussion, you're still arguing against something that wasn't intended by the people you are arguing against, nsimmons's lack of couth notwithstanding. You still hijacked the thread.

 

[Monique]

Let's stop bouncing the ball and replace dominant with assertive.

 

[GCT]

Hi,

I have been pondering the notion of asking out a former TA of mine. She was in charge of the lab in which I was enrolled last quarter. Though I never really talked to her, I did catch her gaze a few times. I didn't think asking someone out while in the subordinate position of TA and student, was a very good idea, and it may even have violated a university policy. Since I don't have her number or anything, I would have to contact her through her official email address. I am leaning against this for a few reasons: she might be weirded out; might be not happy that I am contacting her this way; the fact she doesn't really know me; maybe she thinks I'm desperate. Further I think she is stunningly beautiful and possibly she has had to deal with this before.

I also figure I won’t be going out with her if don’t email her for certain and if she says no nothing really changes, I am still not going out with her. I only have the potential to gain from this should she say yes. At any rate perhaps I am just thinking too much about this and should just do it.

yeah, women enjoy the intelligent aspects of an man trying to have a relationship, it's doesn't seem to be "just a sign here" and let's go out kind of thing. Nothing is clear cut at times, such as the business with the email, you should find a gradual way to approach and bond with her on some level, because it may be a bit childish to just ask her out blatantly on a date. She may see it as a lack of good natured strategy and intelligence on your part, calling her up by phone probably isn't the best idea either. Albeit all of this may be tough, but on some level you've got to make the situation happen through sophistication and intelligence, yet civilized schemes. Not all of us have that kind of strategizing power, but it'll probably be best for you to make the effort. Admittedly they make it impossible at times, because some go for guys that simply "have it" as opposed to guys that don't "have it." That is women know genes

 

[loseyourname]

It matters only very little what you actually say (though it does matter). What matters is how you say it. The point is, you have to honestly believe that this woman wants you and that the two of you will be on a date sometime soon, and you will be having your way with her almost as soon. You cannot contrive this belief; there is no way to fake it. Women know whether you have confidence in yourself or not. You can only practice in front of a mirror for so long; you need to be out practicing in front of actual women. Actually, let me correct this. You don't even have to believe that every women is going to tell you what you want to hear, because the fact is, many won't. You have to not care. You have to be confident in the fact that you are a desirable person with something to offer and that you will get what you want, whether from her or from someone else. Men kill themselves by being afraid of rejection, when half the time that fear is the only thing actually holding them back.

This isn't about imposing yourself on someone else, either. The fact is, this won't work on everyone. You will hear the word "no" from time to time, perhaps more often than not. Don't think of it as rejection. Think of it as a selection process by which you only end up on a date with women who actually want what you want. It is a hell of a lot easier that way, because even if you can get women to go out with you, and even do much more, even when they aren't certain they want to, in the long run it isn't the best idea to do that. This way, two minds are in harmony, and regardless of who is leading the way (it's usually the man just by convention, but it certainly doesn't have to be), both end up in the same place without either having to dominate the other.

Really, this should work most of the time because, let's face it, we all want the same thing. Men need to remember that women are hardwired to desire what we have to give them just as we are hardwired to want what they can give us. We want each other. Women can often be more selective because they have more to choose from, but there is someone for everyone, and you aren't going to find her by sitting around and deliberating.

 

[honestrosewater]

The way you said it in your last post implied that others here used the word first.

Yeah, I guess one interpretation of what I said does imply that. Sorry, that isn't what I meant.

You still hijacked the thread.

That didn't even cross my mind, maybe because it's GD. Sorry, I didn't mean to. I am genuinely interested in this, and I know the difference between being confident and being controlling. I was going to mention loseyourname as a man who strikes me as being confident but not controlling. In fact, for what it's worth, if we were in the right place at the right time, I'd probably ask him out. Despite what my shirt says, I'm not really a rabid, man-hating misanthrope. (I probably shoud stop wearing this shirt.) Anywho, I don't think anyone understood what I was trying to say, so on the slim chance that anyone wants to actually discuss it, maybe a mentor could split it off. If not, I'll leave you guys in peace as promised.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Women know whether you have confidence in yourself or not. You can only practice in front of a mirror for so long; you need to be out practicing in front of actual women. Actually, let me correct this. You don't even have to believe that every women is going to tell you what you want to hear, because the fact is, many won't. You have to not care.

This is a kind of catch-22 that pervades most human endeavors: the more you want something the less likely you are to be able to get it. Strong desires tend to displace people's capacity for clear analysis and effective planning.

"You have to not care," is probably too strong a characterization of the most effective attitude. I think it's more accurate to say "You have to be able to take it or leave it." By that I mean, the prospect has appeal but you're not going to be unduely upset if it doesn't come to pass. Not caring would mean you don't even have the minimal motivation to make an attempt. I point that out because I've had the experience a couple/three times of finding out that women toward whom I felt nearly perfectly neutral had a crush on me, and since I authentically didn't care nothing ever happened. I was completely without any motivation to respond in kind, so I didn't.

 

[mugsby]

so your saying they were ugly

 

[zoobyshoe]

so your saying they were ugly

In all cases they were very physically attractive women with perfectly pleasant personalities. There wasn't anything I could point to about them that bothered or annoyed me. This happens to me once in a while: I recognise that someone fullfills the criteria to be called "attractive", but I still don't experience any attraction to them.