News What are the Key Factors for Victory in the 2008 Presidential Election?

[turbo]

My bad, Ivan. I hadn't seen that "lynching", but since it was accompanied by a statement urging the dissolution of an affirmative-action program that gave scholarships to minority and low-income students, I find a hard time dismissing it as a joke or a prank.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is racism, pure and simple. And the person who did it clearly understands the racial implications of lynching. There is nothing innocent about this.

 

[LowlyPion]

They guy who hanged Obama in effigy is an "adult" who has owned that house for years.

That one is different. And it apparently reflects a regrettable lifetime of acquired intolerance for the differences between people.

I was making my remarks solely about the Oregon Campus incident, which was apparently a cutout of Obama hung with fishing line to a branch in a tree. I rather think that was an immature student looking for inappropriate attention.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is time to declare that "liberal haters" and blatant racists are freaks and outcasts. But instead, the Republicans intentionally fuel the fire.

If some kid thinks this is a joke, then it speaks loudly of the local environment.

Btw, I have spent many hours in Newberg. Yes, this is indicative of the area. Oregon is blue, but we have many fiery red parts of the State.

 

[LowlyPion]

It is time to declare that "liberal haters" and blatant racists are freaks and outcasts. But instead, the Republicans intentionally fuel the fire.

Again I don't see the profit in countering their intolerance and divisiveness with more of the same.

 

[turbo]

My white nephew is a lifer in the Navy, and is being commissioned as a Chief Warrant officer this month after having been selected "Sailor of the year" at more levels than I can count (ship, carrier group, etc). He is white. His wife (also Navy lifer) is black, and his step-daughter from a previous marriage is black. I love those people, and when I see overt racism and hatred like the most radical elements of the GOP are fomenting, it makes me burn. How can I feel any respect for those psychopaths? I almost called them "animals", but that would have been wrong. Animals would never act with such hatred and evil intent.

 

[mheslep]

You went back 2 years to find a post by someone that no longer posts here? If I had caught that post then, it would have been deleted and the member warned as we don't allow such suggestions, not even jokingly. ...

Obviously all PF Mentors do not agree with the policy you state here, even now, as the reasons or political viewpoint of the post are to be considered.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Again I don't see the profit in countering their intolerance and divisiveness with more of the same.

Intolerance of intolerance is always acceptable. And this isn't about political profit. This is about truth. You can't whitewash these hateful acts and expect them to stop.

The Republicans have married themselves to racists and zealots, and then they fuel the fire. And while there are many good Republicans, they are all guilty as long as they allow this to continue.

Senator McCain appeared on Liddy's radio show last November and said, "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family... It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."

That should be the end of McCain's career right there. But no, to many Republicans, this is apparently acceptable.

How many Republicans here would not vote for McCain, for this statement alone?

 

[phoenixy]

Wow, my favorite candidates Obama and Ron Paul are going to tag team McCain in Montana. Latest poll is O +4 (thanks to Paul).

What is going on?

http://www.newwest.net/city/article/ron_paul_to_be_on_montana_ballot/C8/L8/

 

[Alfi]

It is racism, pure and simple. And the person who did it clearly understands the racial implications of lynching. There is nothing innocent about this.

Agree.

 

[phoenixy]

And what the heck is this? McCain can't even count on the racists to fall in line now days. Don't read it if you are easily offended by racial overtone.


Why 3 out of 4 White Supremacists Support Barack Obama

Spoiler

Who: Chairman, American Nazi Party
Likes: Hitler, white people
Dislikes: Jews, immigrants, multinational corporations
Career highlights: Being widely quoted bemoaning in the fact that so few Aryan-Americans had the cojones of the 9/11 hijackers: “If we were one-tenth as serious, we might start getting somewhere.”

“White people are faced with either a negro or a total nutter who happens to have a pale face. Personally I’d prefer the negro. National Socialists are not mindless haters. Here, I see a white man, who is almost dead, who declares he wants to fight endless wars around the globe to make the world safe for Judeo-capitalist exploitation, who supports the invasion of America by illegals -- basically a continuation of the last eight years of Emperor Bush. Then, we have a black man, who loves his own kind, belongs to a Black-Nationalist religion, is married to a black women -- when usually negroes who have ‘made it’ immediately land a white spouse as a kind of prize -- that’s the kind of negro that I can respect. Any time that a prominent person embraces their racial heritage in a positive manner, it’s good for all racially minded folks. Besides, America cares nothing for the interests of the white American worker, while having a love affair with just about every non-white on planet Earth. It’d be poetic justice to have a non-white as titular chief over this decaying modern Sodom and Gomorrah.”

http://cleveland.indymedia.org/news/2008/10/32648.php

538: On the Road: Western Pennsylvania

Spoiler

So a canvasser goes to a woman's door in Washington, Pennsylvania. Knocks. Woman answers. Knocker asks who she's planning to vote for. She isn't sure, has to ask her husband who she's voting for. Husband is off in another room watching some game. Canvasser hears him yell back, "We're votin' for the n***er!"

Woman turns back to canvasser, and says brightly and matter of factly: "We're voting for the n***er."

In this economy, racism is officially a luxury. How is John McCain going to win if he can't win those voters? John Murtha's "racist" western Pennsylvania district, where this story takes place, is some of the roughest turf in the nation. But Barack Obama is on the ground and making inroads due to unusually strong organizing leadership.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-western-pennsylvania.html

 

[mathwonk]

An interesting poll discussion yesterday reported by NPR showed that Bush was actually not preferred by most voters even in 2004, but those who did prefer him were more likely to vote. So he won not by being the choice of more voters but by more who voted. Of course we know that in 2000 he was not even the choice of most who did vote.

So we are getting those presidents who are supported by the most active people, not the most people. This is relevant to this election as well. It does not matter if Obama is the clear choice of more Americans, as the president will be chosen by the ones who show up and whose votes are actually counted. That is apparently a different ball game in most elections from polling the favorite. I.e. those more likely voters have tended to be older and whiter.

Also here in georgia there is a concerted effort by the Republicans who control state office to challenge as many new voters as possible, conjecturally since those seem to be largely Democrats. Indeed the practice of early voting, which was initiated by Republicans in a period when it tended to favor them, has lately been criticized by those same Republicans because it is now being used by new Democratic voters.

So it may be that this election possibly like some recent ones, will be decided by who is mobilized best to actually vote, and who is excluded by technical considerations. Even the justice department has asked Georgia why they are challenging far more voters than any other state, and requested that they stop this practice.

Although fraud in voter registration has been revealed as existing, there are also less credible challenges here to such practices as "motor voter" registration, i.e. attempts to allow people to register when they take out a drivers license. The only logical reason for opposing such practices is to restrict voting to those people privileged enough to be able to register even when it is not made convenient.

 

[LowlyPion]

But Barack Obama is on the ground and making inroads due to unusually strong organizing leadership.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/on-road-western-pennsylvania.html

Yeah. How can a Community Organizer hope to win an election?

 

[mgb_phys]

You've got to start worrying about your chances when you brand your opponent a muslim terrorist sympathiser and yet both the Nazi party and Jewish groups (http://jews4change.com/) prefer him to you!

 

[turbo]

I hope some of you West-coasters will TIVO the NBC news tonight and load the Palin/McCain interview onto YouTube. McCain just said that the Weathermen were terrorists who intended to destroy America. He said a bit earlier that they wanted to kill Americans. It is well-known that the Weathermen were radical vandals who went to great lengths to AVOID hurting or killing people, but wanted to make political statements against our county's rampant killings of the people of Southeast Asia.

The real domestic terrorists are the McVeighs - the people of the radical militia movements who will re-emerge if Obama is elected. And McCain/Palin are laying the groundwork for them with their divisive, hate-filled lies.

Edit: corrected spelling of little Timmy's name

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Funny! Scott McClellan just endorsed Obama.

 

[mgb_phys]

but wanted to make political statements against our county's rampant killings of the people of Southeast Asia.

I believe that is the new definition of terrorist http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245.html

 

[phoenixy]

McCain's antic is begging the news organizations to do a report on Gordon Liddy. I'm calling it now. Countdown to mega backlash all the way to backfireville 3..2..1..

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The real domestic terrorists are the McVies - the people of the radical militia movements who will re-emerge if Obama is elected. And McCain/Palin are laying the groundwork for them with their divisive, hate-filled lies.

The Oklahoma City bombing was a domestic terrorist attack on April 19, 1995 aimed at the U.S. government in which the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, an office complex in downtown Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, was bombed. The attack claimed 168 lives and left over 800 people injured. It was the first major terrorist attack and until the September 11, 2001 attacks, it was the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil.

Shortly after the explosion, Oklahoma State Trooper Charlie Hanger stopped 26-year-old Timothy McVeigh for driving without a license plate and arrested him for that offense and for unlawfully carrying a weapon.[1] Within days after the bombing, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were both arrested for their roles in the bombing. Investigators determined that they were sympathizers of a militia movement and that their motive was to retaliate against the government's handling of the Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents (the bombing occurred on the anniversary of the Waco incident).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

What did McCains good friend, G. Gordon Liddy, have to say about this?

In 1994, after the feds stormed the branch Davidian compound in Waco, Liddy said on his radio program, "Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of bitches."

http://www.keloland.com/custompages/kelolandblogs/madvilletimes/index.cfm?c=2313

 

[LowlyPion]

Interesting conversation with Barack Obama's sister in Hawaii.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/23/obama_sister/

 

[LowlyPion]

Obama pulling Jewish vote 3 to 1:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111424/Obama-Winning-Over-Jewish-Vote.aspx

Obama leading among 1st time voters 65 to 30:
http://www.gallup.com/video/111322/Majority-FirstTime-Voters-Plan-Vote-Obama.aspx

80% of voters knew Powell endorsed Obama.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111319/Eight-Voters-Aware-Powell-Endorsement.aspx

 

[LowlyPion]

Funny! Scott McClellan just endorsed Obama.

Here's the story from the LA Times:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/10/mcclellan-obama.html

Countdown to Crawford is the title of the story.

Less than 3 months to go until we have a new President.

 

[mgb_phys]

So the only way for McCain to win now is if Bush endorses Obama?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

So the only way for McCain to win now is if Bush endorses Obama?

The flood of Conservatives supporting Obama may have swing with the Inds and liberal Reps, and I would think that McCain's close ties to Libby should cause many McCain supporter to jump ship, but what will strike at the core of the Palin-McCain base will be, Palins $150,000 set of new clothes, her $700 hotel rooms, and expensed trips for her kids. There go the hockey moms. There goes good ole Joe. There go the reformers. Palin is a gimmick.

 

[LowlyPion]

..., but what will strike at the core of the Palin-McCain base will be, Palins $150,000 set of new clothes, her $700 hotel rooms, and expensed trips for her kids. There go the hockey moms. There goes good ole Joe. There go the reformers. Palin is a gimmick.

I doubt that conservatives will be abandoning Palin because of expenses. Heck look at how Jim and Tammy Baker lived, or Jimmy Swaggart or any of their ilk.

Besides putting up a family of 7 is not that cheap in major cities. $700 a night isn't all that bad. Besides the Secret Service likely has security restrictions on where they want candidates to stay meaning major hotels with restricted access and they aren't cheap.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I doubt that conservatives will be abandoning Palin because of expenses. Heck look at how Jim and Tammy Baker lived, or Jimmy Swaggart or any of their ilk.

True... Still, her appeal as "average folk" just went out the window. This seems to undermine the entire premise of her candidacy.

 

[jal]

Why DRILL BABY DRILL

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1853252,00.html?imw=Y
How Cuba's Oil Find Could Change the US Embargo
If Cuba really does have 20 billion bbl. to drill, however, it could more easily find other interested refinery investors, like Brazil. The question is whether the U.S. will want to step off the sidelines and get a piece of the action too. Kirby Jones, head of the U.S.-Cuba Trade Association and an embargo opponent, says Tenreyro's staff has been credible in the past, and he believes the new estimate is probably accurate. "So for the U.S., this becomes an 800-lb. guerrilla knocking on everybody's door," says Jones. "With that much oil, there would be the feeling that there's a real [U.S.] price to be paid for [maintaining] the embargo. It changes Cuba's economic situation drastically and makes the U.S. less relevant."
Perhaps, but in the short run it's more likely to make the U.S. more determined to do its own offshore drilling. Vice President Dick Cheney and other Bush Administration officials point to Cuba's petro fortunes as justification for opening more of America's coastline to oil production. Recent polls in U.S. coastal states like Florida support that idea, despite environmentalist complaints that both U.S. and Cuban offshore rigs will foul the Gulf of Mexico.
------
That sounds more like the truth ... which is being hidden from the citizens.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Nobody is going to drill for oil that costs $65 a barrel, when it sells for as much or less. Drill baby drill is a dead issue as long as the price of petro is this low.

 

[turbo]

Some days back I wondered what kinds of communications are passing back and forth between the McCain campaign and the RNC and what insiders in those organizations are saying, in particular about the defections of high-profile Republicans to Obama. As for the former - apparently the lines of communication between McCain's camp and the RNC are practically non-existent. As for the latter -Politico reports that there is intense infighting and finger-pointing, and resumes are already flying - rats jumping off the sinking ship. The defections are being blamed variously on the VP choice, the horrible Bush record, McCain's inability to offer a steady response to the economic crisis, and his insistence on painting Obama as a friend of terrorists while publicly saying that he has no interst in Ayers.

Also, there is dismay among the down-ticket campaigns and the RNC in general that McCain is not using his resources to try to staunch the expected losses in the House and Senate by firing up some support in key races. The thinking is that if his campaign is in such dire straits, why not at least try to salvage some seats for his party.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14891.html

 

[Astronuc]

Nobody is going to drill for oil that costs $65 a barrel, when it sells for as much or less. Drill baby drill is a dead issue as long as the price of petro is this low.

Oil off Cuba won't cost a lot to develop since it is not deep drilling. If exploration adds to reserves, it will add value.

Cuba would also be a supplier to China, which has an interest. If China develops that area, as well as the China Sea, then it takes pressure off other markets, so that will keep prices down, which is good for consumers, but not good for producers.