What Colleges Want for High Schoolers Taking AP Classes

[Shay10825]

I'm 15 and in 10th grade and I'm taking 4 AP classes :AP Physics B, AP Calculus AB, AP Government, AP Statistics. My other 3 classes are Pre-IB chemistry, Pre-IB English 2, and Health. I have already finished my high school requirements but I'm not allowed to graduate. I'm way ahead of the average 10th grader. But do colleges really look at Ap classes. Which would a college more likely accept:

1. a person with a ton of AP classes, a 3.6 GPA and not in the top 10% of his/her class
2. a person with a 3.4, no AP classes and is in the top 10%
3. a person with a 3.9, no AP classes and in the top 10%
4. a person with a 3.9, no Ap classes and is not in the top 10%
?

I just don't know what to do . Am I helping or hurting myself by taking all of these AP classes? I go to a special school for people like my (people that are way ahead of the average person) so there is no way I will even be in the top 20%. To be in the top 20% you have to have a 6.0 HPA (every A in an AP class is worth 6 points. my school goes by HPA not GPA for rank. It's a long story on why). Right now my GPA and HPA is not so good because I have a C in AP physics , a C in Ap Calculus AB , and a C in PIB-English . This is the first time in my life I have ever made a C . I rarely ever get Bs in math and science(i have never been good in English and I usually get Bs but a C has just killed me ). I don't know what to do. Would it be good to leave my school. If I went to any other high school I would probably be in the top 3%. If I leave I will graduate with Calculus 3. if I don't go then I will graduate with Matrix theory (i would have taken calc 3, differential equations, and matrix theory. If I go I will be behind 2 years in math behind (nit behind the average person). Is it good to take the AP classes and get a C or is it better to take a honors class and get an A or B? What do colleges want?

 

[theFuture]

Obviously, the ideal would be to take a tough schedule and do well. That said, It's probably better to have a high class rank than a high GPA. It looks better when you do well compared your peers then when you do better on a universal "raw" scale. If at all possible, take the AP tests and do well in the subjects you got Cs into show that the grade did not reflect how much you really learned in that class.

 

[Shay10825]

So should I leave my school so I can have a higher rank?

 

[theFuture]

It would be awfully tough to leave school in 10th grade to start over socially. You'll find (or at least I found) that a good social experience in HS is better than doing everything trying to get into a "good" college. Maybe try to bring up your grades at your current school, unless there is are some other circumstances that aren't provided above. You should talk to your parents, teachers and school counselors if you are seriously considering leaving.

 

[jai6638]

im a sophomore too... a guy from amherst came to our school and someone asked him the same question.. he said that he'd prefer seeing a student taking "the most demanding course ur school offers" which in my case, are AP courses and getting a 2-3 on those rather than taking regular course and getting excellant grades...

cheers

 

[Shay10825]

There is no way I can bring up my grades. In calc every quarter we only have about 4 grades and they all are quizzes that are worth 8 points each. Each quiz only has one question. If you get it wrong you get a 0. On one of the quizzes she tricked us and me and everyone else got a zero. That has just killed my grade since we have so few grades. In english we never get anything back so I don't even know why I have a c! Everytime I ask he says he will pass back stuff later. He hates me! We have not had a test or anything in that class (we have only had papers). And Physics is just hard! I don't know what to do. It's just driving me crazy. I understand the material but it is just how they grade. Since we go to a special school they think they have to grade a special way. And what makes me really mad is that the teacher you get determines your grade. Like people that have the other calc teacher are all getting As because her work is so easy and she gives you an A if she likes you (you can fail every test and still get an A with her). When a college looks at my grades they don't see that your teacher was really hard and the other person had an easy teacher.

I have been thinking about leaving a lot. Everytime I think about my grades i get depressed or start to cry. I just don't know what to do. Everyone has been telling me my whole life that i should go to this high school because it is one of the best high schools in the US. Now i don't know if it was a good thing that i was accepted. I just don't know what to do.

 

[courtrigrad]

look. just stay in your current school. you have your health right? why do you care so much about numbers? It doesn't matter that you do not get into an Ivy League School. Just try your best, and that's all that matters. College is not the end of your life, as you can make many contributions later.

Hope this helps

 

[Shay10825]

I don't know why I care so much about grades. I barely have my health. I'm going to end up killing myself over this stuff. I know trying my best is all that matters.

 

[Shay10825]

Do you have to go to an Ivy League School to be a scientist, doctor. . .?

 

[courtrigrad]

of course not. in the long run it does not matter. the only thing that matters is your passion for whatever you want to study (dedication) and whether you tried your best. There are many great professors of many other colleges. Don't just go by the name. The Ivy League schools is just one division of schools. Although professors may be a little better (how do you define better?) Do you think when you are old and dying someone will come up to you and say "I hate you because you didn't go to and Ivy League School?" Of Course not. In the context of your life, a few C's won't matter in the long run. Don't be simple minded and allows a simple letter determine your fate.

Hope this helps

 

[learningphysics]

There is no way I can bring up my grades. In calc every quarter we only have about 4 grades and they all are quizzes that are worth 8 points each. Each quiz only has one question. If you get it wrong you get a 0. On one of the quizzes she tricked us and me and everyone else got a zero. That has just killed my grade since we have so few grades. In english we never get anything back so I don't even know why I have a c! Everytime I ask he says he will pass back stuff later. He hates me! We have not had a test or anything in that class (we have only had papers). And Physics is just hard! I don't know what to do. It's just driving me crazy. I understand the material but it is just how they grade. Since we go to a special school they think they have to grade a special way. And what makes me really mad is that the teacher you get determines your grade. Like people that have the other calc teacher are all getting As because her work is so easy and she gives you an A if she likes you (you can fail every test and still get an A with her). When a college looks at my grades they don't see that your teacher was really hard and the other person had an easy teacher.

I have been thinking about leaving a lot. Everytime I think about my grades i get depressed or start to cry. I just don't know what to do. Everyone has been telling me my whole life that i should go to this high school because it is one of the best high schools in the US. Now i don't know if it was a good thing that i was accepted. I just don't know what to do.

You certainly do not need to go to an Ivy league school to become a scientist or doctor. Take a deep breath. All you can do is your best.

There will be many options for you. You are so young. You could go to an average undergrad school, do great, and go to one of the upper echelon grad schools...

Talk to your school counselors and your parents about what to do. Tell them about your worries...

Take it easy... Just do your best, and let the chips fall where they may. That's all you can do in life.

 

[Shay10825]

I have talked tp people about it. I almost left. I had the papers and everything. I have tried so hard and it has all gone to waste. If i go i will have better grades and a better rank. The other thing that I'm wondering about is if it is worth it to take all the AP classes because I heard many colleges don't accept them. Do they? Have any of you taken an AP class that a college has accepted? Do they like it when kids take Ap classes?

 

[so-crates]

I have talked tp people about it. I almost left. I had the papers and everything. I have tried so hard and it has all gone to waste. If i go i will have better grades and a better rank. The other thing that I'm wondering about is if it is worth it to take all the AP classes because I heard many colleges don't accept them. Do they? Have any of you taken an AP class that a college has accepted? Do they like it when kids take Ap classes?

Alot of colleges accept AP Calc, especially if you take BC. Your AP Stat class probably won't mean much if you go into science/engineering though because its not calculus based. Not quite sure about the others though I imagine a lot of colleges also accept AP Chem, Physics and Bio.

You seem to be taking a pretty heavy course load and seemed to be a bit stresed out. That seems like quite a bit of a load for a 15-year old. I also went to a magnet school. The first course I took was AP Comp Sci as a sophomore, like a lot of people did. I honestly can't remember if I I got an A or a B. I took AP Calc my junior year, and tried to take AP Physics as well HS but my mind wasn't mature enough to handle the physics so I switched to regular. I did well in it in college though. I got a 5 in the only two AP exams I took, comp sci and calc. I also took AP government but for some reason decided not to take the exam. My school also offered multivariable calculus and linear algebra (they even added differential equations and complex variables) and I did OK in those courses. In college, I was able to obtain placement but not credit for them by passing an exam.

About colleges and careers, the most important thing is that you have a passion for what you are doing. Yes Princeton, MIT, Harvard, etc. are good schools but its not the end of the world if you don't get in. Nobel prize winners come from state schools too, you know.

 

[cyby]

Remember, there is no set formula to get into a great school. With a dozen APs, top notch standardized test scores, members of many extracurricular clubs, services, job experiences, and all that... I still ended up with a very disappointing college process. What I did learn, was that upon entering university, I was already way ahead of others, and I was set for a significantly easier time and I was able to pursue further studies faster...

Point is, the fractional differences in your GPA will not matter much in the long run. What you really learn is important. Your grades matter, but not as much as you think. You will discover that soon enough, I am sure.

Colleges will look at so many different things. I am more than willing to discuss my experiences in detail if you wish.

-Cyby-

 

[jai6638]

Hmmm which school are you in?

also I am looking to move to a school which offers very challenging courses ( such as urs. ) ...is ur school classified as a magnet school?

thanks

 

[cyby]

The university that I attend (Carnegie Mellon University - www.cmu.edu) has accepted all my AP scores to one level or another (because I received all 4s and 5s).

I think I can tell you for a fact that AP courses are generally well received. A high school which offers challenging courses may be in the long run beneficial, but you also face a lot more competition from your schoolmates in getting into the same top notch schools. Remember, some colleges are not inclined to take too many kids from the same school...

 

[Shay10825]

but you also face a lot more competition from your schoolmates in getting into the same top notch schools. Remember, some colleges are not inclined to take too many kids from the same school...

I know that's what I'm worried about. That's why my rank sucks. If I left then I would have a better rank. Am I taking all of this stuff for nothing. Are these Ap classes hurting me?

 

[cyby]

Doubtful. I didn't have a very high rank in my high school. Everyone else was taking a tonne of APs and all that. You'll learn more from AP classes anyway. And trust me, colleges know the qualities of high schools...

 

[cyby]

If I really had to make a suggestion - stay where you are, and take the challenging courses. No matter where you end up, it will be beneficial in the long run. And honestly, AP and IB programs are still not too difficult by comparison anyway, and anyone level headed, IMO, should be able to handle them with flying colours.

 

[Shay10825]

If I could take the AP classes at another school then should I go? I want to go to get better grades but there are some people i will really miss if i go .

 

[cyby]

I really suggest you stay put where you are. Grades are very... relative, as you will see. Some high schools will do grade inflation, and honestly, colleges will look at it and possibly weigh in on your APs and honors classes.

If you really go to such a competitive school, being in the top 20% won't hurt you. If I may, it gives you a little more room to improve and play around in case you mess up. Imagine if something comes up in life and you're in a not so great school... heh.. if you mess up there, you risk ruining yourself further..

Just, please, don't think so highly of grades. There are so many more aspects to the college process. A perfect 4.0 won't get you into a good school if you don't have the rest of life to back things up.

 

[Shay10825]

It is not the classes. It is the teacher! The other calc teacher just gives you an A becuase she likes you and you have tons of grades. My teacher only gives 4 quizzes and that's it! There is always an easy teacher and a hard teacher and I have all the hard ones. Then there are those that don't teach. My Ap Statistics talks about her shoes and clothes the whole class! We never learn any Statistics! I'm doing well in that class but it makes me mad that I'm not learning anything.

 

[Shay10825]

I'm not in the top 20%. I'm in the top 50% . I'll try not to worry about it so much but it is hard not to.

 

[cyby]

Perhaps then, what you need to do is to ignore your teachers. Most profs in college won't teach much anyway. The most important skill you may need to learn right now, arguably, is the self-teaching skill. If you don't learn anything in class - learn on your own. If you don't know how to do it before you enter college, you will regret it in the future.

I've had final exams that were worth 80% of my grade... how do you think that made me feel all semester long?

 

[Shay10825]

That's what I had to do all last year. My pre calc teacher did not teach so I have to teach everything to myself. But I got an A in that class.

 

[Shay10825]

I just don't know. It's really depressing that everyone around me is dropping out like flies. I don't know. I'm just confused and depressed. Last year 10 people graduated out of this program (it is called MSE: math science and engineering). I wanted to be one of those 10 when I graduated but now I'm wondering if it is worth it.

If I drop it will seem like I have wasted my time taking all of these classes. I took the classes to be in this program and if i drop it's like i did all of this for nothing. I don't know.

 

[cronxeh]

I agree with cyby. The point of university is to give you a philosophical foundation combined with knowledge. The point is to make you excited about learning, because there is no way in HELL you will learn everything about anything in 4 years of undergraduate studies. The point is to commit you to a lifetime of learning and to make you realize that even when you will be very old and wise for your age - you'll still be on a 6th grader level 50-100 years from now. We are all just specs of dust on this pretty blue planet and we barely even 'seen' the iceberg let alone dig it's tip of knowledge. This may sound weird to you but we are really.. really stupid as intelligent human beings. We kill, we get killed, we do stupid things throughout our lives - the cycle never seems to end.

As far as college/university is concerned. There are 2 concerns. First of all the cost of education. If you didnt have stellar SATs and HS GPA wasnt that high you'll probably be taking out loans in university. This is a real ***** if you are studying Physics - you won't find a job after you graduate with your bachelors.. And probably won't find one soon enough even after you get your Ph.D- you can ask around. It is all connections based and, again, depends what school you went to. Think of it this way - if I went to an Ivy League school - id want to 'keep the tradition' - and hire an Ivy Leager. This depends upon your views on life and all that philosophy mumbo jumbo - again all people are different and some become 'open minded'/liberal and some become conservative. Which one is better is arguable.

Get your bachelors from a good.. make that great college or university - and make sure you don't slack off on courses you choose - you are, after all, going into science. You may notice my english may not be all that grammatically correct, and punctuations are pretty liberal in my writing. But hey, who cares? All that liberal mumbo jumbo they make you take as an engineering major is, imho, a waste of time. We all know how to speak and write, and I don't mind taking history classes, but come on! Those are 4 credit courses.. and I guarantee you won't remember much years from now - you could take a graduate course instead of that crap.

 

[Shay10825]

The thing I'm worried about is that if I don't go to an Ivy League school then I won't get a good job. And there is no way I'm going to get in one with the grades i have now.

 

[Shay10825]

Get your bachelors from a good.. make that great college or university - and make sure you don't slack off on courses you choose - you are, after all, going into science.

That's what I want to do but it seems unlikely now and it's probably not going to get any better.

 

[cyby]

The thing I'm worried about is that if I don't go to an Ivy League school then I won't get a good job. And there is no way I'm going to get in one with the grades i have now.

Your concern is really unfounded, I hate to tell you. Depending on what you study, some of the non-Ivies will have far better programs, and ergo will probably get you a better job. CMU's CS program ranks on top of the world, and CMU is far from an Ivy. Look at Berkeley, or Stanford...

And if you are going for a higher degree, then you got plenty more time to worry about these things.

 

[cyby]

I'm not in the top 20%. I'm in the top 50% . I'll try not to worry about it so much but it is hard not to.

I also find that these ranking systems are not fair. If I end up taking far more difficult courses and my grades suffered, it doesn't mean that I won't do as well or better than someone with a higher rank just because they had a better grade...

I also know for a fact that my high school *never* filled in a rank for the students.

 

[Shay10825]

Yeah I guess your right. But at the rate I'm going i won't even get into a state school. I'll try not to worry about it but it's so hard not to.

 

[cyby]

If those credentials that you posted way earlier are right - I am sure you will get into more than just a state school. Probably a half decent private university, if you don't mess up and continue on this trend. The mean Ivy League student probably doesn't have more than 4 or 5 APs throughout their career anyway. Trust me, you're ahead of many people older than you are. You got little to worry about.

 

[Shay10825]

I also find that these ranking systems are not fair. If I end up taking far more difficult courses and my grades suffered, it doesn't mean that I won't do as well or better than someone with a higher rank just because they had a better grade...

I also know for a fact that my high school *never* filled in a rank for the students.

At my school rank is determined by HPA not GPA. My HPA is way higher than my GPA because an A in an AP calass is worth 6 points not 4. So the more higher level classes you take the higher your rank 9but you have to do well in those classes also).

 

[cyby]

If those credentials that you posted way earlier are right - I am sure you will get into more than just a state school. Probably a half decent private university, if you don't mess up and continue on this trend. The mean Ivy League student probably doesn't have more than 4 or 5 APs throughout their career anyway. Trust me, you're ahead of many people older than you are. You got little to worry about.

 

[cyby]

At my school rank is determined by HPA not GPA. My HPA is way higher than my GPA because an A in an AP calass is worth 6 points not 4. So the more higher level classes you take the higher your rank 9but you have to do well in those classes also).

Point is - your college will ignore those rankings and assign them on your own. Damn, six instead of four? You are already lucking out. No complaints :P

 

[Shay10825]

I saw this thing on 60 min or 20 20. It was about these 2 girls. One had tons of AP classes, a 3.9 GPA but since she went to a good school she did not have a high rank. The other girl had a 3.4 GPA, no AP classes but she was in the top 10% at her school. They both applied to a really good school and the girl with the lower GPA got in because she was in the top 10%. This worries me.

 

[cyby]

You shouldn't let individual case studies worry you. However, the other girl may also had other factors - such as ... extracurriculars, essays, recommendations, geography, race.. and all of that stuff.

It is indeed true that colleges won't take so many students from top notch schools.. but eh, NYU takes 1/3 of my high school's applicants, Columbia about 1/5.. Chicago about 1/3 to 40%.. and hundreds of us apply every year... so I mean, don't let numbers worry you so much... it will affect your day to day performance...

 

[cronxeh]

also keep in mind - you might not want to go to an Ivy League school. At this point in time with lower GPA you probably won't get full tuition coverage - so you'll be taking out big loans, even if you end up in Columbia for example. And big loans means about 30 grand a year - so think about it - do you really want that? You can just as successfully go to a SUNY at Buffalo, which is a great school and pay only 14 grand for everything (and that is before any financial aid - which may be around 4 grand i your case)

 

[cyby]

Hah, I wish 30 grand a year would cover it... *Sigh*

 

[Math Is Hard]

Can you compromise, Shay? I mean, could you consider staying at your school but taking AP classes only in the subjects you are strongest in?
You shouldn't be under this much stress at your age. You need to have a life!
I don't know how it is where you are, but I know that the colleges in California look at quite a few other things besides GPA. They like to see volunteer work and community service, they like to see any academic clubs you were involved in, they like to see ambition and enthusiasm (through your admissions essay), and they are always delighted to see any special awards and achievements (HELLO - Ms. Science Fair winner!).
You have an awful lot going for you so don't sell yourself short! I think you are freakin' brilliant and you should apply anywhere your little heart desires!

 

[theFuture]

Shay: That 20/20 was on a totally unrelated topic. It was disucssing the policy at the University of Texas to grant students automatic admissions to their school if you 1) are a state resident and 2) are in the top 10%. They were filling most of the incoming class that way (controversially) so that's why there was a 20/20 on it. Unless you are from Texas, you don't have to worry about it.

I'll just echo myself and others one more time: Yes, rank is important. Yes, grades are also imporant. However, you need to consider what is best for you. If you're trying your hardest and enjoying what you do that's all anyone can ask. If you do this you are setting yourself up for a bright future, independent of what college you ultimately attend. There are lots of people who go to horrible schools and, by their own will, go own to do great things. There are also those who sell out, get into good schools and fail to make anything of themselves, by their own will. You are NOT defined by where you go to college. Remember that.

 

[Shay10825]

Can you compromise, Shay? I mean, could you consider staying at your school but taking AP classes only in the subjects you are strongest in?

The AP classes I'm not doing well in now are calc and physics. I am required to take these because I'm in MSE. I understand the stuff but it is just how they grade. Like for example in calc to get credit for a quiz you have to get every problem correct or you get a zero. That english class is not AP. my teacher just sucks! If you say something smart he hates you. He loves it when you say stupid things . I have a presentation to do and I need to think of really stupid things to say or else I'm not going to do well .

I have always been bad in engligh (not bad enough to get a c though).

 

[so-crates]

You're taking AP Physics before even finishing Chemistry - good grief. Whoever your guidance counselor is should be fired. Yes, there are a few exceptional kids who might have a shot at handling it that, but so what. People's minds sometimes mature at different rates. Let me give you an example.

At the school I went to, I knew of one individual who took Calculus in 8th grade and was taking Multivariable Calc and Linear Algebra as a Freshman. Then there was another kid who was 'only' in Pre-Calc as a freshman. One of those kids went on to go IMO, and in college placed in the top 5 in the Putnam 4 years in row, and wonit at least once if I'm not mistaken. Can you guess which one it was.

Your course load should be challenging, but not overwhelming. Why can't you drop one or even two of those AP classes and switch into regular ? You can always take them as junior or god forbid a senior. What do you plan on doing as a senior anyway? I doubt a good school is going to hold that against you. And if you want to go into science, why are you taking AP gov right now?

 

[Shay10825]

This is what I'm required to do:

http://www.palmbeach.k12.fl.us/SuncoastHS/mse2004.html

 

[cyby]

Lord, what a boring and restrictive schedule. It's not too difficult, but I see enough boredom and redundancies...

I presume that this is a special program you are in? Challenging, but it's worth looking at this program's statistics in getting into the colleges of your choice - your school may or may not publish these statistics...

 

[cyby]

You guys should be ok. Back when I was in HS, we didn't even start the AP curriculum until October.. we always cut it tight, and have to do some studies on our own...

Teaching for exams really isn't fun at all...

 

[Shay10825]

Yeah it is a special program. Yeah my school does not publish the stats.

 

[so-crates]

No offense Shay, but that program just seems like its too much for even most gifted and talented students. People have no business taking physics concurrent with chemistry unless they have made significant individual efforts to learn the material themselves. Much less AP physics. This curriculum was probably cobbled together by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. AP Physics is significantly harder than AP Chem and AP Bio. BTW I attended what some consider to be the best public high school in the country(we always have the most National Merift SemiFinalists) and our standard curricula looked like this

Freshman Year:
-Biology - emphasis on molecular
-English
-Principles of Technology - traditional pencil &paper drafting as well as CAD, electronics and robotics. Only really useful thing was electronics.
-Math (about half took geometry, the other half took Alg/2 Trig and a few were past that)
-Health/PE
-Foreign Langauge - took Latin
-elective although a lot of people took computer science (we had an accelerated version of this that was a little harder - this is the one I took)

Sophomre Year:
-World History - I remember one kid managed to sneak in AP European History . But even most the kids who were Harvard/MIT bound were still taking the regular
-Literature(team taught with world history)
-Chemistry
-Math(either Alg 2 or Pre calc for most)
-Health/Drivers Ed
-Foreign language
-elective, although a lot of people took AP Comp Sci

Junior Year:
-American History ( about half took AP if I remember)
-American Literature (team taught with the history)
-Math (pre-calc or calc at this point)
-Foreign language - they only required three years
-Physics (some people like me attempted AP Physics their junior year - I didn't do so well so I switched into regular) Believe it or not the AP Physics class only consisted of about 60 kids, , juniors and seniors. out of the 400 per class There was another option where you just took Mechanics the first semester of your junior year and then did E&M your senior year with multivariable calc. if you had calc as a junior.
-Technical electives that would prepare you for your Senior Lab
-Alot of people took their Fine arts elective this year

Senior Year:
-English - you had a choice here, between AP English and this more writing intensive course called Writing Seminar
-Government either AP or regular - there wasn't a whole lot of difference
-Math( you had to finish Calculus, but we had both BC and AB, we even had 4 semesters post calculus(linear alg, multivariable calc, diff eq, and they added complex variables when I was a senior)
-Geoscience(everyone complained about this one)
-Senior Lab
-Alot of people took their AP Chem/Physics/Bio at this point although you only needed 4 science credits
-Fine arts/other electives

 

[so-crates]

About the previous post, I don't mean to boast, but to only suggest that you don't need to kill yourself to get into a good school. In the curriculum I mentioned, few if any students were taking AP courses before their junior year(AP Comp Sci was the glaring exception, though that course isn't that hard for most) And plenty of them got into Harvard, MIT, CalTech, etc. (Not me, though I'm a nother story!)

Also, you should ask yourself why you are doing what you are doing. If it is just to "get a good job" as you say, that will probably not turn out to be a satisfying reason. Ideally you must enjoy what you do regardless of money, status and prestige.