What could be done to help those like him (Cho)?

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The discussion centers on the case of Seung-hui Cho, highlighting the importance of social interaction and support for individuals with mental health issues. Participants express that while peer support could help, professional help is often necessary for those suffering from untreated mental illness. There is a consensus that Cho's isolation and lack of effective treatment contributed to his tragic actions. The conversation also touches on the broader societal implications of mental health care, particularly the decline in support systems and the challenges faced by those who need help. Ultimately, the need for a more compassionate and proactive approach to mental health is emphasized.
drankin
Does anyone know anyone like Cho has been described? And if we do know someone like this, what should we do for him personally, or as a society?

I'm talking as human beings, regardless of nationality.
 
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Get him laid.
 
out of whack said:
Get him laid.

Well, most women like someone they can talk to. He wasn't much of conversationalist from what I could tell.

I think he would need a bunch of guys to take him out, party with him a little, get him loosened up. Hang out with him a bit. Get him to snap out of it a little. But it would have to be consistent thing over a long time.
 
Those types of things are both good for a typical shy, akward kid just out of high school, but this guy was a 23 year old senior. His problems were real and he needed professional help.
 
Then get him laid.
 
russ_watters said:
Those types of things are both good for a typical shy, akward kid just out of high school, but this guy was a 23 year old senior. His problems were real and he needed professional help.

He had professional help. I "think" a guy can be helped by his peers regardless of his age. The problem with professional help is the "professional" can't be real with his client and that may be what he needed. Personally, I wonder if "professional" help really is "helpful". But I dunno.

He was lonely in the midst of a high density of people enjoying life all around him. Most people reach out in that situation, some people don't. They need to be dragged out.
 
out of whack said:
Then get him laid.

And then they need to get laid. :smile:
 
He was apparently suffering from a mental illness, that apparently went untreated. He was a loner, or perhaps an outcast.

Va. Tech Gunman Sent Package to NBC on Monday
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604204
NPR.org, April 18, 2007 · The gunman who killed 32 students and professors at Virginia Tech on Monday left the world a rambling, profane and threatening "multimedia manifesto."

"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to avoid today," said an angry Seung-hui Cho, in a video he mailed to NBC News that was received by the network Wednesday morning. "The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

Investigators Sift Clues for Cho's Motives
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9658304
Newly released documents show that a judge declared Seung-hui Cho "mentally ill" and an "imminent danger to self or others" in December 1995.
Ooops!

From yesterday - Gunman Left Note; Past Writings Called 'Troubling'
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9618705


The support for mentally ill has been steadily eroding in the US. My wife worked in the Texas system, when the Reagan and other republicans (and conservatives) started pushing for less taxes and less government support. In response, Texas, among several states began to de-institutionalizing the mentally ill, who ended up on the streets, and many of whom subsequently became involved in drug abuse (my wife counseled some - usually as a result of an arrest and subsequent court case). Drug and/or alcohol abuse in conjunction with mental illness is a downward path.

Many mentally ill patients require medication, but they may not take such medication as prescribed, or not all. Without medication or consistent treatment, some will spiral downward, and some will be harmful to themselves or others.
 
drankin said:
Does anyone know anyone like Cho has been described? And if we do know someone like this, what should we do for him personally, or as a society?

I'm talking as human beings, regardless of nationality.


You know what 'human beings' is ?
 
  • #10
Astronuc said:
He was apparently suffering from a mental illness, that apparently went untreated. He was a loner, or perhaps an outcast.

Va. Tech Gunman Sent Package to NBC on Monday
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604204


Investigators Sift Clues for Cho's Motives
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9658304
Ooops!

From yesterday - Gunman Left Note; Past Writings Called 'Troubling'
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9618705


The support for mentally ill has been steadily eroding in the US. My wife worked in the Texas system, when the Reagan and other republicans (and conservatives) started pushing for less taxes and less government support. In response, Texas, among several states began to de-institutionalizing the mentally ill, who ended up on the streets, and many of whom subsequently became involved in drug abuse (my wife counseled some - usually as a result of an arrest and subsequent court case). Drug and/or alcohol abuse in conjunction with mental illness is a downward path.

Many mentally ill patients require medication, but they may not take such medication as prescribed, or not all. Without medication or consistent treatment, some will spiral downward, and some will be harmful to themselves or others.

being out of symbols socalled rule is the last step to do
 
  • #11
I have given cho a lot of thought today. My business, psychiatry, at its essence is pattern recognition. So I wondered what if I had seen him three months ago? I have been fooled by many customers and saw a colorado school of mines student last year I felt was in the early stages of schizophrenia. He seemed to have no violent tendencies, had no record of such, and was not willing to take medications. The problem with the going postal problem is it is circular. The best evidence for a propensity toward violence is a history of same. cho had none, But there is always a first time.

I read both his plays and while they certainly suggest sexual abuse, hard to say whether he was a victim of same. Maybe/maybe not he could have been abused, ignored, or both. But it may be that he had a bad illness, that tragically, took not his own life but all the others.
 
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  • #12
Moon Bee said:
You know what 'human beings' is ?

I'll have to answer you with a simple, "yes". Other than that, I don't follow where you are going.
 
  • #13
denverdoc said:
I read both his plays and while they certainly suggest sexual abuse, hard to say whether he was a victim of same. Maybe/maybe not he could have been abused, ignored, or both. But it may be that he had a bad illness, that tragically, took not his own life but all the others.
Was talking to my gf -- who's a teacher -- about strange writings her kids have done. She said that it would be impractical to report everytime a kid wrote something which could be considered a bit weird or even dangerous to others, as it happens so frequently -- tho'she does teach moody teenagers, not 23 year olds.
 
  • #14
It sure would have helped him to have socialzed more.. But guessing that he couldn't do becuase of his reclusiveness.
 
  • #15
denverdoc said:
I have given cho a lot of thought today. My business, psychiatry, at its essence is pattern recognition. So I wondered what if I had seen him three months ago? I have been fooled by many customers and saw a colorado school of mines student last year I felt was in the early stages of schizophrenia. He seemed to have no violent tendencies, had no record of such, and was not willing to take medications. The problem with the going postal problem is it is circular. The best evidence for a propensity toward violence is a history of same. cho had none, But there is always a first time.

I read both his plays and while they certainly suggest sexual abuse, hard to say whether he was a victim of same. Maybe/maybe not he could have been abused, ignored, or both. But it may be that he had a bad illness, that tragically, took not his own life but all the others.
Therein lies a Catch-22, and it is a handicap for law-enforcement. This is a particular problem for law enforcement personel when dealing with domestic violence, often because the threat is not witnessed. How many people have been killed or severely injured by an estranged spouse or bf/gf who violated a restraining order because the police cannot arrest the violent person until they commit an act of violence.

It is against the law to threaten someone (assault), which involves a explicit threat to a specific person, and certainly to batter someone. It is not against the law to express violence in general, although it is possibly an indication that a person could be thinking of acting up on it.

Already people are asking what could have been done to prevent the tragedy at V-Tech and help Cho.

The key question is - how does one distinguish an expression of anger or frustration from a planned attack?

Moon Bee said:
being out of symbols socalled rule is the last step to do
Please elaborate. The statement is not clear.
 
  • #16
Bladibla said:
It sure would have helped him to have socialzed more.. But guessing that he couldn't do becuase of his reclusiveness.
you are right, but there are people who are energic in relationship, there are people who aren't. It's not they are afraid of anything, they just find themselves happy to do that. Are you happy if you have a son like that ?
 
  • #17
J77 said:
Was talking to my gf -- who's a teacher -- about strange writings her kids have done. She said that it would be impractical to report everytime a kid wrote something which could be considered a bit weird or even dangerous to others, as it happens so frequently -- tho'she does teach moody teenagers, not 23 year olds.
Yes, you'd wonder what Stephen Kings' English teacher would have made of him.
 
  • #18
denverdoc said:
I have given cho a lot of thought today. My business, psychiatry, at its essence is pattern recognition. So I wondered what if I had seen him three months ago? I have been fooled by many customers and saw a colorado school of mines student last year I felt was in the early stages of schizophrenia. He seemed to have no violent tendencies, had no record of such, and was not willing to take medications. The problem with the going postal problem is it is circular. The best evidence for a propensity toward violence is a history of same. cho had none, But there is always a first time.

I read both his plays and while they certainly suggest sexual abuse, hard to say whether he was a victim of same. Maybe/maybe not he could have been abused, ignored, or both. But it may be that he had a bad illness, that tragically, took not his own life but all the others.
Didn't some recent study show Omega 3 supplements alleviate schizophrenia? I read somewhere they were looking at this for patients who didn't take their medication.
 
  • #19
actually it was bipolar disorder, and yes they do have modest benefit according to a study done at NIMH. And obviously very good for heart.

Before reading the accounts I would have guessed that Cho had bipolar disorder, which is often aggravated this time of year by the mismatch in circadian rhythms one experiences because of rapid photoperiod lengthening during equinoxes,(the sin/cos relation at play here between length of day and rate of change). In fact suicide rate amongst bipolar patients surges in March, April to something like 10x the average rate.
 
  • #20
denverdoc said:
Before reading the accounts I would have guessed that Cho had bipolar disorder, which is often aggravated this time of year by the mismatch in circadian rhythms one experiences because of rapid photoperiod lengthening during equinoxes,(the sin/cos relation at play here between length of day and rate of change). In fact suicide rate amongst bipolar patients surges in March, April to something like 10x the average rate.

Thanks for reminding me of the details on this. I was talking to someone else on the phone about the story, and they commented about the timing being similar to Columbine. I remembered there being a seasonal component to bipolar disorder, but was fuzzy on the details, and thought it was an increase in mania in spring as they came out of the winter depressive state (possibly a comorbidity with seasonal affective disorder). When I had come across a paper on it a year or so ago, I wasn't sure if it was a sufficiently large study to make that conclusion definitive or if it was regularly observed in psychiatric practice (there are a lot of studies that report a seasonal effect on this that or the other thing, and then you'll find other studies that report exactly the opposite or no effect, and it turns out it's just a sample bias with small groups of people in some studies, or cultural influences rather than biological in a particular population).

Anyway, as for what could have been done, I keep hearing conflicting reports in the news as to whether he was under the care of a psychiatrist. They do seem to all concur that he was at some point involuntarily committed based on suicidal threats, but it sounded like that was only a day and then he was released again for outpatient treatment.

The most frustrating part of getting someone help if you're NOT a psychiatrist is that the psychiatrist you refer them to isn't allowed to tell you if they have followed through with seeing them and continue to do so due to doctor-patient confidentiality, so you're somewhat left in the dark as to whether the person you know needs help is actually receiving it unless they volunteer that information to you. Or, they could lie and tell you they are going when they aren't.

In this case, it wasn't his writing alone that sounded warning bells, but the accompanying affect. But, it sounds like his professors had done what they could have done and had him referred for treatment. So, I don't know what more could be done in a case like that on the part of the university anyway.

As for whether his psychiatrist should have known he was an immediate threat to himself or others, again, only his psychiatrist is likely to know that. We don't know if he ever expressed these plans in a session with the psychiatrist, or when he last saw the psychiatrist relative to when he started to form the specific plan. And, he may have come across as potentially suicidal, but never gave any inkling that he would consider taking others with him. Sometimes you get highly intelligent people with mental illnesses who can hide their illness. There may be some signs that something is "off" about them, but they know enough of what to say or not say to people to keep them from knowing their real thoughts.

It is entirely possible that either starting a new medication or the change in seasons helped make it possible for him to go from suicidal thoughts to actually acting out his plan. Someone very depressed often lacks the motivation to do anything, and as they are on the recovery process from depression, they begin to have the motivation or energy to do things but unfortunately still have the depressive thought process going on, so the thing they act out on is the self-destructive thoughts.

About the only thing that comes to mind, if it wasn't done already, is that if the campus psychological services receives information or calls of concern about a student from multiple sources, that they bring together the people making these reports, along with other professors of theirs or roommates, etc., and have a conference session to piece together as much information as possible to see what patterns exist. Some people just appear weird in some contexts, but nothing is wrong overall. For example, a creative student might write a violent story in a writing class, but not be violent themselves. If you get together with their roommates and other professors, you could find out that there is no pattern of concern and it's just an isolated issue not likely to mean anything. On the other hand, when their roommates tell you they are weird and never make eye contact, and other professors tell you they won't even share their name in class, or that they've felt threatened or nervous around this person (we're used to encountering painfully shy students, and can tell if there's something more brooding than just shyness to some extent), and you have reports from other students saying they were receiving harrassing calls from him that were a lot like stalking, etc., it starts to paint a clearer picture that this is a truly troubled student when these behaviors are consistent in all facets of their life and interactions with others.

However, what would be the way to deal with it from there? Is that cause to have him involuntarily committed again? Or do they decide it's cause to expel him from school, in which case he may have gone on the shooting rampage anyway, or been prompted to do it even sooner in his anger at the school for expelling him?

The problem with cases like this is they are very rare. It's hard to find patterns and make predictions and identify rules to follow to prevent it when there just aren't enough cases to study to find patterns.
 
  • #21
Lock him in a cell and throw away the key.
 
  • #22
Moonbear said:
The most frustrating part of getting someone help if you're NOT a psychiatrist is that the psychiatrist you refer them to isn't allowed to tell you if they have followed through with seeing them and continue to do so due to doctor-patient confidentiality, so you're somewhat left in the dark as to whether the person you know needs help is actually receiving it unless they volunteer that information to you. Or, they could lie and tell you they are going when they aren't.

I didn't know about that aspect of the doctor-patient confidentiality issue. Why is it so? I mean, I understand, but then again, if you refer someone to a psychiatrist, you most definitely want to know how they're doing. Of course, not in detail, but a pinch of information, like if the sessions are regular or not, could do some good.

usahockey said:
Lock him in a cell and throw away the key.

Too late.
 
  • #23
My guess is that he had other personality disorders as well as being Bi Polar. From his tape, he took very little or no blame for the harm he was going to cause, stating that "You had a hundred billion chances and ways to avoid today." To me that means he viewed his life as almost daily incentive to harm others, overreacting to his interactions with other people. I think that points to Antisocial Personality Disorder (psychopath).

How can you do anything to help such a person, when they view all interaction with hostility? I doubt spending time with "friends" would change this attitude and may actually make it worse, if he was truly derranged (which I would say he was).
 
  • #24
radou said:
Too late.

Obviously. Hence my response being in reply to "what could be done to help those like him"
 
  • #25
BTW, I'm not saying he was bipolar, only that would have been my guess before reading anything about the case. And I would agree with Artman that he had some personality disorder like shizoid/shizotypal, if in fact we wasn't outright psychotic as in schizophrenia or the bipolar blend known as schizoaffective disorder. But what I found so striking in reading his plays the amt of sheer rage he had bottled up.
 
  • #26
has anyone asked what caused the rage?
 
  • #27
denverdoc said:
BTW, I'm not saying he was bipolar, only that would have been my guess before reading anything about the case. And I would agree with Artman that he had some personality disorder like shizoid/shizotypal, if in fact we wasn't outright psychotic as in schizophrenia or the bipolar blend known as schizoaffective disorder. But what I found so striking in reading his plays the amt of sheer rage he had bottled up.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn he had multiple disorders, or a more atypical disorder that would be hard to classify.

It sounds likely there was a nasty feedback loop going on too...his disorder left him somewhat flat in affect and antisocial, which led people to avoid him, so then he sees that as people don't like him, so they avoid him more or start taunting, so he starts thinking the whole world is against him, etc.
 
  • #28
light_bulb said:
has anyone asked what caused the rage?
I am sure that is being asked. Only his parents and close friends (?), and perhaps teachers/students from primary/secondary school would be in a position to answer.

One would have to look into the past.

I wonder if the rage has just evolved from a nihilistic perspective of the world. I wonder about how supportive his parents were in the preteen or early teen years. I wonder if he felt ostracized by his peers or the world.

And then there is the matter of whatever mental illness was present.

Moonbear said:
It sounds likely there was a nasty feedback loop going on too...his disorder left him somewhat flat in affect and antisocial, which led people to avoid him, so then he sees that as people don't like him, so they avoid him more or start taunting, so he starts thinking the whole world is against him, etc.
Definitely a nasty negative/downward feedback loop. I don't know if he was flat in affect, or just withdrawn and quiet.

The taunting is a problem for many children who are not part of the mainstream. My kids have experienced it in junior high and high school, because they are not part of the mainstream or part of a particular clique. Children with learn disorders or more particularly delayed development or delayed social development are sometimes (often in some cases) targets for bullying.

Vonnegut had a point - be kind! :approve:
 
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  • #29
Astronuc said:
I don't know if he was flat in affect, or just withdrawn and quiet.
From what I read, he was anti-social. In one of his classes, when the students each introduced themselves, he sat silently. When the teacher looked at the sign in sheet for his name, there was a question mark (?) written where his name should have been. They referred to him as the "Question mark man." He wore dark glasses even inside, probably to avoid eye contact.
 
  • #30
I would imagine that the incident below only aggravated his mental condition.

University Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said his officers confronted Cho in late 2005 after two women separately complained that he had harassed them through a variety of means, including in-person, through phone calls and with instant messages. After the second incident in December 2005, Cho’s roommate warned police he might be suicidal, prompting them to issue a “temporary detention order.” Police then sent him to a nearby mental health facility, Access Services, for a psychiatric evaluation.

http://psychcentral.com/news/2007/04/18/virginia-tech-killer-committed-for-psychiatric-evaluation-in-2005/
 
  • #31
Certainly if Cho was quiet and/or withdrawn, perhaps extremely introverted, he would appear anti-social, and passively so - as opposed to aggressive anti-social behavior.

But then that aggression burst out.
 
  • #32
This guy had all the red flags waving. He had set a dorm room on fire, there was the harassment incident with a psychological evaluation, one teacher had referred him for counseling because she was disturbed by his writings, yet he somehow slipped under the radar.

It is almost as if his situation was fragmented. One person saw this, another person saw that, the Campus police saw something else. No one person saw the whole picture.
 
  • #33
i've never seen people wear sunglasses while in class but i have seen kids wear their 'hoodies' with the hood on all the time while in school and no one seems to say anything, they just let them get more withdrawn, except for the one teacher who started buying weed off of one of the students knowing it wouldn't be a problem.

not knowing how to act in school or around your peers imo almost always stems from problems in the home, once you hit grades k-2 the schoolyard forces you to socialize. if you become an recluse well you know how kids are, it gets magnified and becomes a cycle so the trick becomes keeping that kid in his/her peer group relative to the pecking order of the school. that may not be possable in college where everything is mixed.
 
  • #34
Va. Tech Gunman Seen As Textbook Killer
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604940

BLACKSBURG, Va. April 19, 2007, 7:28 p.m. ET · In high school, Cho Seung-Hui almost never opened his mouth. When he finally did, his classmates laughed, pointed at him and said: "Go back to China."

As such details of the Virginia Tech shooter's life come out, and experts pore over his sick and twisted writings and his videotaped rant, it is becoming increasingly clear that Cho was almost a textbook case of a school shooter: a painfully awkward, picked-on young man who lashed out with methodical fury at a world he believed was out to get him.

"In virtually every regard, Cho is prototypical of mass killers that I've studied in the past 25 years," said Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox, co-author of 16 books on crime. "That doesn't mean, however, that one could have predicted his rampage."

When criminologists and psychologists look at mass murders, Cho fits the themes they see repeatedly: a friendless figure, someone who has been bullied, someone who blames others and is bent on revenge, a careful planner, a male. And someone who sent up warning signs with his strange behavior long in advance.

Among other things, the 23-year-old South Korean immigrant was sent to a psychiatric hospital and pronounced an imminent danger to himself. He was accused of stalking two women and photographing female students in class with his cell phone. And his violence-filled writings were so disturbing he was removed from one class, and professors begged him to get counseling. He rarely looked anyone in the eye and did not even talk to his own roommates.
 
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  • #35
He was supposedly severely bullied in high school/middle school
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-cho0419,0,1890146.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

I have also read that he had a really tough life in South Korea. I think that is where most of the rage came from. But he was picked on because he was so withdrawn, maybe he was fairly depressed even during his childhood.

Supposedly when he was in court for stalking one woman a judge gave him the option of going to see a psych, if he had made it mandatory, he would not have been able to purchase the guns. (I am sorry that I cannot provide link, I cannot find the article, if I come across it again I will come back and edit). So maybe that's the key, anyone who is found guilty of stalking or any other really weird behaviour that hints at mental problems should not be able to purchase a gun. I don't see why not.

edit: here's a link to the gun thing I mentioned: It's not the one I was originally talking about but it says the same thing. If the judge had ORDERED him to go get help then he could not have bought the guns http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/gun.laws/
 
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  • #36
Thats maybe where Brady should be expanded, anyone ever put on an involuntary detention should be on the list. Let there be measures and means to challenge...but better to be safe than sorry. What the judge is saying, had she placed the involuntary detention order, it woulkd have been. My guess is something like of all the involuntatry commitments i have seen in a variety of settings, less than 5 percent come from the court.
 
  • #37
Questions Keep Coming for Va. Tech Officials
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9709426

Laws Limit Options When a Student Is Mentally Ill
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/19/us/19protocol.html?em&ex=1177214400&en=9e52d5f9ec8197b9&ei=5087
Federal privacy and antidiscrimination laws restrict how universities can deal with students who have mental health problems.

For the most part, universities cannot tell parents about their children’s problems without the student’s consent. They cannot release any information in a student’s medical record without consent. And they cannot put students on involuntary medical leave, just because they develop a serious mental illness.

Nor is knowing when to worry about student behavior, and what action to take, always so clear.

“They can’t really kick someone out because they’re writing papers about weird topics, even if they seem withdrawn and hostile,” said Dr. Richard Kadison, chief of mental health services at Harvard University. “Most state laws are pretty clear: you can only bring students to hospitals if there is imminent risk to themselves or someone else, so universities are in a bit of a bind that way.”

Office for Civil Rights - HIPAA
Medical Privacy - National Standards to Protect the Privacy of Personal Health Information
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIPAA
 
  • #38
Seems to me the key would be to have an a active involved family and friends. No one can tell you what the future holds so saying something like this is preventable is impossible- tho if he had a family who cared or friends who cared who could see the mental illness destroying him someone would have made him get help- Maybe they should do mandatory psychological testing on everyone to screen for hi risk people as well as background and family checks, but even with that there would still be those who slip through the system.
 
  • #39
probably the biggest favor we could have done him wOULD BE to deny him a fast loading handgun.
 
  • #40
mathwonk said:
probably the biggest favor we could have done him wOULD BE to deny him a fast loading handgun.

He has the right to be armed, so that will never happen.
 
  • #41
He (Cho) has the right to be armed
May be not!

The Federal Gun Control Act, ever since 1968, has prohibited the possession by a person or the sale to a person who is what they call mentally defective. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms wrote a regulation, and that regulation says that that category includes a person who has been found by some kind of official body to be a danger to himself or others.

Cho was found to be a danger to himself or others when he was brought before a magistrate. The magistrate had the option to commit him but found that less restrictive treatment, the outpatient treatment, would be sufficient. Yet even though he wasn't committed, that's sufficient under federal law to bar him for the rest of his life from ever possessing a firearm.

And, in fact, there's a case from the federal district court of Michigan, U.S. v. Vertz, that finds exactly that, that, in a very similar situation, the Federal Gun Control Act did apply and prohibited the person from having a gun.

Now, clearly it would be very helpful if these regulations were better known and disseminated more broadly to the mental health community and to the judges and magistrates who may make these commitments or determinations about a person's danger so that this information does get reported.

Shooter's Purchase of Handguns Raises Questions About Gun Control Laws
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june07/guncontrol_04-20.html
Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho's ability to purchase two handguns despite a history of mental illness has raised questions about American gun control laws. Gun control and gun rights advocates discuss the regulations for background checks.

When a person is found to be irresponsible or a danger to him or herself, then the legal system is allowed to deprive that person of certain rights, and more so privileges. For example, a person convicted of drunk driving may have the privilege of driving suspended - but at the discretion of the judge or magistrate. There have been numerous cases where drunk drivers have caused fatal accidents, and one finds that they have had numerous arrests and convictions for DUI. Fortunately, it is less likely now than 2 or 3 decades ago, but it still happens. Sometimes, perhaps often, the legal system is inconsistent.
 
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  • #42
Bladibla said:
It sure would have helped him to have socialzed more.. But guessing that he couldn't do becuase of his reclusiveness.

Mental Illness in the form of schizophrenia ,often does not show up until right before puberty; when the brain goes through a major change chemically/physically- it happens to everyone, but for those with schizophrenia it means that while their brains were developing something was missing some protein(or something like that) so it is a degenerate brain disease as well as a disorder. They have to take they're medication loyally but its a known fact they will usually begin to feel that they don't need their Medication, stop taking and suffer psychosis of which they could remain permanently. so socialization would have helped but not really prevented
 
  • #43
In many states, you are not allowed to purchase any firearm if you've been admitted to any mental health facility within the last few years or so. This would have made it so that Cho could not have purchased a weapon. Still, when a person like this snaps, they would probably find some other way. (simply breaking into anyone of the thousands of gun owner's homes in VA and steal weapons)

They're saying that he even had a "hitlist" of students made out in middle school, and was also made fun of in high school for being a potential "school shooter". It sounds like this guy was developing his ways long before this recent breaking point. The family says they had no idea, I don't buy it...not if he was caught with a "hitlist" in middle school.
 
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  • #44
Controlling his access to weapons would not have mattered. When the rage is boiling, an angry person who wants to kill will find a way. If not guns, then knives, gasoline, homemade explosives, chemical/biological nasties... Lots of information on the Internet, too.

Mental illness or not, when we are bullied we get angry and want to strike back. That bullying is so often ignored by students and staff can only lead us into these dark moments.
 

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