What Does This Symbol in Relay Logic Diagrams Represent?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of a specific symbol encountered in relay logic diagrams, particularly within the context of high power transmission protection and controls. Participants seek to identify the function of this symbol and its implications in circuit behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about a symbol in relay logic diagrams and requests clarification from others.
  • Several participants inquire about the origin of the symbol and suggest looking at standard symbols from the Instrument Society of America.
  • Another participant proposes that the symbol might represent a memory element for lockout purposes.
  • A later reply suggests that the symbol could be more accurately described as a timer, providing details about its function related to the Schweitzer Variable (SV) and its role in circuit operations.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which the SV allows current to flow and its interaction with other components in the circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the exact nature of the symbol, with multiple interpretations being proposed, including memory and timer functions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the definitive identification of the symbol.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of clarifying notes or documentation accompanying the symbol, which may limit understanding. The discussion also highlights the complexity of analyzing circuit behavior without complete knowledge of all components involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals working in electrical engineering, particularly those involved in relay logic and high power transmission systems, as well as those seeking to understand the nuances of circuit symbols and their functions.

EverGreen1231
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Good morning,

I'm looking at some logic diagrams for relays and have encountered something that I've never seen before. I haven't looked on the internet extensively since I thought the folks here at the forums would be able to answer my question more quickly. My experience with logic is limited (I'm more of a Power guy) so I've not looked at much outside of classes on the subject; so if anyone could explain to me what this little thing in the picture below does, I'd be much obliged.
http://forum.gon.com/picture.php?albumid=8041&pictureid=44664

Thanks for your help.
-Tyler.
 
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What picture?
 
From what industry does that symbol come ?

Instrument Society of America's standard symbols are in 5.4 table 3 here
https://esimezica.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/s_51.pdf

and yours rather resembles a converter block, element 20 on page 25 of the pdf.

Surely there are some cryptic clarifying notes nearby ? Can you scan and post the page ?
 
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jim hardy said:
From what industry does that symbol come ?

Instrument Society of America's standard symbols are in 5.4 table 3 here
https://esimezica.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/s_51.pdf

and yours rather resembles a converter block, element 20 on page 25 of the pdf.

Surely there are some cryptic clarifying notes nearby ? Can you scan and post the page ?


High Power Transmission Protection and Controls. I have someone at work that should be able to explain it to me, but they won't return 'till tomorrow. In the mean time, there aren't any notes around, but the full logic may help someone come to an explanation. I've spent some time analyzing the logic so as to gain some understanding of how these circuits are behaving with various inputs, but I'm at a cross-roads of understanding.

Here's the component in a circuit for context...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...296106.-2207520000.1432730893.&type=3&theater

As you can see, the circuits aren't really that difficult to understand; but without knowing exactly what this piece does, it's difficult for me to say I understand it completely.
 
Would it make sense for it to be a memory element, to provide the lockout ?
 
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Thanks for your replies Jim! I was able to contact someone who knew a little more about this stuff than I did.

I think that memory would be an accurate description, but timer might be a little better. I found out that the SV stands for Schweitzer Variable. If you have one in a circuit where the input to the SV is RELAY ALARM + !TRIP COIL MONITOR + STATION DC NOT GOOD and one of these inputs goes to high for, let's say, 130 cycles; then the SV will allow current to flow. If the SV has "0" as its set value (as in the example in the picture), then it will allow complete transparency between the input and output sides. I suppose it's there only to set a timer if it's needed in any particular application. This signal will pass through several other gates that provide inputs to an SR latch. The output of this latch will let the relay know if a HOT LINE TAG has been applied. Meaning the breaker will go straight to lockout if a limb hits the line or there's some other type of ground fault (it'll also make the relay more sensitive to ground disturbances).
 

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