What does this tensor symbol mean?

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    Mean Symbol Tensor
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the tensor symbol \(\otimes\) in the context of incompressible fluid dynamics, specifically within the framework of the Navier-Stokes equations. Participants explore the meaning of the tensor product and its implications for the equations governing fluid motion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants identify \(\otimes\) as a 'tensor product' or 'outer product' but express confusion about its application in the context of the equations presented.
  • One participant argues that interpreting \(\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}\) as an outer product leads to a contradiction, as it results in a 2x2 matrix rather than a vector.
  • Another participant asserts that \(\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}\) must be a tensor because it is involved in an equation where a tensor is subtracted from it, challenging the previous deduction that it equals \(\textbf{u} \cdot \nabla \textbf{u}\).
  • Several participants express uncertainty about the correctness of equating \(\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}\) with \(\textbf{u} \cdot \nabla \textbf{u}\), with one later correcting their earlier statement to clarify the relationship between the terms.
  • There is a general sentiment of confusion regarding the authors' choice of notation in the original paper, with calls for a more conventional representation of the equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the tensor symbol \(\otimes\) and its implications for the equations discussed. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of \(\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}\) and its relationship to other terms in the equations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions and properties of the tensor product in this context, as well as the implications of the notation used in the original paper.

rsq_a
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In a paper, the authors write:

At the continuum level, the dynamics of incompressible flow has to obey conservation laws of mass and momentum:

[tex]\rho \partial_t \textbf{u} = \nabla \cdot \tau[/tex]

and

[tex]\nabla \cdot \textbf{u} = 0[/tex]

where the momentum flux [tex]-\tau = \rho \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} - \tau_d[/tex]. Here [tex]\rho[/tex] is the density of the fluid which is assumed to be constant, [tex]\textbf{u} = (u,v)[/tex] is the velocity field, and [tex]\tau_d[/tex] is the stress tensor.

From what I know of the standard incompressible equations, it seems that

[tex]\rho \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} = \rho (\textbf{u} \cdot \nabla)\textbf{u}[/tex],

but otherwise, I have no idea what the [tex]\otimes[/tex] symbol means.
 
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zhermes said:
That's a 'tensor product,' or 'outer product.'
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor_product

Maybe some one has a good conceptual description?

I thought about that, but that doesn't make sense. If we interpret the symbol as the outer product, then [itex](u,v)\otimes (u,v)[/itex] is a 2x2 matrix. But as I pointed out, it seems that

[tex]\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} = \textbf{u} \cdot \nabla \textbf{u}[/tex]

which is simply a vector.
 
The quote in the original post tells you for certain that [itex]\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}[/itex] is a tensor, as the tensor [itex]\tau_d[/itex] is being subtracted from it (and you can't substract a 2x2 tensor from a vector). Your deduction that [itex]\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} = (\mathbf{u} \cdot \nabla) \mathbf{u}[/itex] is incorrect. How did you arrive at this conclusion?
 
Mute said:
The quote in the original post tells you for certain that [itex]\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}[/itex] is a tensor, as a tensor is being subtracted from it. Your deduction that [itex]\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} = \mathbf{u} \cdot \nabla \mathbf{u}[/itex] is incorrect. How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Okay, maybe there's a simple way for you to explain it to me. Can you simply break down the original equation into vector form (2d is fine).
 
From

[tex] -\tau = \rho \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} - \tau_d[/tex]

it is clear that
[tex] \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}[/tex]
has to be a tensor; I don't know where or why you have,
[tex] \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} = \textbf{u} \cdot \nabla \textbf{u}[/tex]
but my guess is that it can't be correct.
 
zhermes said:
From

[tex] -\tau = \rho \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} - \tau_d[/tex]

it is clear that
[tex] \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}[/tex]
has to be a tensor; I don't know where or why you have,
[tex] \textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u} = \textbf{u} \cdot \nabla \textbf{u}[/tex]
but my guess is that it can't be correct.

There was a typo in my 'guess'. It should have been

[tex]\nabla \cdot (\textbf{u} \otimes \textbf{u}) = \textbf{u} \cdot \nabla \textbf{u}[/tex]

Checking it over, that's correct.

What a confusing way to write the Navier-Stokes equations. I have no idea why the authors didn't just write them in the typical way everybody else uses without the tensor notation.
 

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