What exactly is electrical energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of electrical energy and its transfer to devices within electrical circuits. Participants explore how electrical energy is made available to devices, the mechanisms of energy transfer, and the underlying models that describe these processes. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, practical applications, and the complexities involved in understanding energy consumption by various components.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on how devices receive electrical energy through current, expressing dissatisfaction with existing explanations.
  • Another participant notes that energy originates from various sources (chemical, mechanical, solar) and is transferred via the electric grid.
  • A participant emphasizes the complexity of how devices utilize power, mentioning the role of electron-lattice collisions and phonons in resistors, and the mechanisms in LEDs.
  • There is a discussion about whether the flow of electrons or protons is relevant to energy transfer, with a focus on the role of electrons in conduction.
  • One participant expresses a desire for a more accurate model of electrical energy transmission, referencing surface charges and Poynting's theorem, while questioning how energy is received by devices.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of comprehensive explanations in textbooks regarding how devices consume energy, particularly in relation to the total energy supplied by a power source.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best model for understanding electrical energy transfer to devices. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the mechanisms of energy consumption and the adequacy of existing models.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations in standard educational resources and textbooks, indicating that certain advanced concepts and models may not be adequately covered. There is also an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in accurately describing energy transfer mechanisms.

cak942
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My specific question is "How is electrical energy made available to devices?"

Everyone knows that "devices transfer electrical energy into useful forms" of energy, such as light and heat. What I have discovered is that no source I have found has been able to describe exactly how devices GET that electrical energy.

I understand potential differences, voltages, current, power, and almost anything else about electrical circuits, but what I cannot find, even in my "Physics for Scientists and Engineers" nor any of my Freshman Engineering texts is how these devices get energy.

So my question stands, slightly modified, as:

"How does an electrical current enable the transfer of electrical energy to devices?"

Thank you.
 
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The energy originally comes in chemical, mechanical, solar, and other sources, and is transferred to the devices via the electric grid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_grid

Welcome to the PF, BTW.
 
I'm sorry, I didn't phrase my question appropriately. I know exactly how devices are connected and how energy sources are transferred into electrical energy. I'm looking for information on how exactly a device is delivered this electric energy through a current.

For example, if I have a simple circuit like 2 batteries, a resistor, and an led, circuit analysis will tell me how many watts each device is consuming (assuming a perfectly conducting wire) and what the "voltage drops" across each element is, as well as the current, but I'm interested in how these elements are using said power. Undoubtedly this answer is extremely complex, but I'm not satisfied with the simple explanations I've been given.

EDIT: If the flow of only electrons creates a current and a stable electrical circuit, and so does the flow of only protons, that would mean that ANY electrical current can transfer energy, and that the energy is transferred by the current, right? And if that's true, then does the direction that the energy is traveling play a bigger role than we've ever been taught (ie: conventional current is the direction that positive charges would move)?
 
Last edited:
cak942 said:
I'm sorry, I didn't phrase my question appropriately. I know exactly how devices are connected and how energy sources are transferred into electrical energy. I'm looking for information on how exactly a device is delivered this electric energy through a current.

For example, if I have a simple circuit like 2 batteries, a resistor, and an led, circuit analysis will tell me how many watts each device is consuming (assuming a perfectly conducting wire) and what the "voltage drops" across each element is, as well as the current, but I'm interested in how these elements are using said power. Undoubtedly this answer is extremely complex, but I'm not satisfied with the simple explanations I've been given.
The current through the resistor causes heat (in the classical model) because of the electrons transferring their momentum to the atomic lattice by collisions. The concept of "phonons" comes into play in this model. You can use wikipedia or google or Wolfram ! Alpha to learn more about electron-lattice collisions and phonons.

I haven't studied LEDs for a long time, so you'd need to use the search engines I mentioned to read more about the mechanism that results in the excited electrons transitioning to lower energy orbitals and giving off photons in those transitions. Jeeze, I need to read up on that sometime...

Similarly, for each consumer of electrical power, just read about the device to see how the conversion takes place. If you're confused about a particular consumer mechanism, you can post that specific question here, and you should get a pretty good answer.

cak942 said:
EDIT: If the flow of only electrons creates a current and a stable electrical circuit, and so does the flow of only protons, that would mean that ANY electrical current can transfer energy, and that the energy is transferred by the current, right? And if that's true, then does the direction that the energy is traveling play a bigger role than we've ever been taught (ie: conventional current is the direction that positive charges would move)?

Not sure of the question, sorry. First, it is the electrons in the conduction band of metals that carry current, not protons. Protons are held captive by the atomic lattice; electrons in the conduction band of metals are relatively free to be driven by an EMF applied to the metal.

And whether a device is primarily driven by current or voltage, and whether the device is polar or not (LED versus a resistor), just depends on the device itself.
 
I understand the classical model completely, I know all about Latice collisions and phonons and even about LEDs (a PN junction by the way). I'm smart enough to use a search engine to find out how different electrical components work. None of those are my question.

My question is much harder to find the answer to than any of those. Really, I'm looking for information on the most accurate model of electrical energy transmission in a circuit. Even Drude's model is too simple.

I've run a across references to surface charges and poynting references, and it creates a model of energy transmission that I can believe and quantify, but it lacks a description of how the energy is actually received by devices. This isn't really a model, rather it is something that is proven and has been around since 1967, which is strange that none of my EE textbooks mention it... What I haven't been able to piece together is how devices use this energy, because it is flowing in from both directions...

That has been my question. How the energy is actually SENT to devices, and how devices then get that energy.

And by getting the energy I mean how does a resistor consume 10 watts of the total energy supplied by the battery? This is just an example, I know how this works in the classical model, but want I more concise generalization.
 

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