What Force Caused You to Slide Forward on a Bus? Ans: D) None

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the forces acting on a person standing in a moving bus that suddenly stops, leading to the question of why they slide forward. The subject area includes concepts of forces, motion, and acceleration within the context of physics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the role of friction, gravity, and normal forces in the context of motion and acceleration. Some question how a change in acceleration can occur without a force, while others discuss the implications of non-inertial frames and inertial forces.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants provide insights into inertial forces and frame of reference considerations, while others express frustration with the multiple-choice format of the question. There is no explicit consensus on the best answer, but several productive lines of reasoning have been presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the question may be framed at a level that does not account for non-inertial frames or inertial forces, leading to confusion. The nature of multiple-choice questions is also questioned, suggesting that they may not adequately capture the complexity of the topic.

logan3
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You are standing in a moving bus, facing forward, when you suddenly slide forward as the bus
comes to an immediate stop. What force caused you to slide forward?

A) The force due to friction between you and the floor of the bus.
B) Gravity.
C) The normal force due to your contact with the floor of the bus.
D) There is not a force causing you to slide forward.

At first I thought it was the force of friction acting opposite the direction of motion, but I was told the answer's D. I'm not sure how you can experience a change in acceleration without there being a force present.
 
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logan3 said:
At first I thought it was the force of friction acting opposite the direction of motion,
If friction acts opposite the direction of motion, how can it make you slide?

logan3 said:
but I was told the answer's D. I'm not sure how you can experience a change in acceleration without there being a force present.
There is no interaction force accelerating you, but in the non-inertial frame of the bus there is an inertial force that accounts for that acceleration:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force

I assume the test is done at a level before non-inertial frames are introduced. So better stick to the inertial frame of the road: The bus accelerates backwards, while you just continue to move forward, which doesn't require any forces. That's why you slide relative to the bus.
 
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The only force on you is through your feet on the floor of the bus (and your hand if you were smart enough to hold onto a bar). Since the bus is slowing, those are forces are backwards. And, so, your acceleration is backwards. But you already had speed and momentum forwards. Your motion forwards, relative to the bus, is because you are not accelerating (backwards) quite as fast as the bus.
 
logan3 said:
At first I thought it was the force of friction acting opposite the direction of motion, but I was told the answer's D. I'm not sure how you can experience a change in acceleration without there being a force present.
When you and the bus are heading down the road at 30 km/hr, how fast are you moving? 30 km/hr, of course.

When the bus decelerates to 25 km/hr because of the friction between its tires and the road, how fast are you moving? Still 30 km/hr, of course.

How fast are you approaching the front of the bus? It's moving at 25 km/hr, you're moving at 30 km/hr, it's going to feel as if you've been thrown towards the front of the bus at 5 km/hr, but actually you're just continuing happily (at least until you hit the front of the bus) at the same speed you always were.

The only forces acting on you are friction (between your shoes and the floor of the bus) and if you are unlucky, impact forces when you smash into the front of the bus. These forces are acting to slow you from 30 km/hr to 25 and will eventually get your speed down to that of the bus. But until they do, it will seem as if you arevaccelerating towards the front of the bus; in fact the front of the bus is decelerating while you're not.
 
logan3 said:
At first I thought it was the force of friction acting opposite the direction of motion, but I was told the answer's D. I'm not sure how you can experience a change in acceleration without there being a force present.
Just to add to what has been said, it is quite true that one cannot experience acceleration without a force. If the question had asked: what force causes you to accelerate? the answer wold have been a). As has been pointed out, the acceleration is in the opposite direction of motion.
 
This QA frustrates me. I would like to add inertial force as a right choice.
D) is an answer if we do not admit concept of intertial force that appears in non IFR. Words "What force" is trickey.
B) can be an answer. Inertial force can be interpreted as gravity in accerelation frame.
 
sweet springs said:
This QA frustrates me.
Multiple choice tests are practical for the teacher, but often not fair to the student. They should be a option: "E) Other (explain): ..."
 
Thank-you, the idea of fictitious force was exactly what I needed.
 
Come on people, the answer is obviously D. You can come up with advanced arguments for B, but it's obvious that a student is supposed to put the most proper answer on the test, not the most clever.
 
  • #10
Khashishi said:
a student is supposed to put the most proper answer on the test
most proper = least wrong
 

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