What gives rise to natural frequency?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concept of natural frequency, exploring what factors contribute to it in various systems, including mechanical and electrical contexts. Participants examine specific examples such as mass-spring systems, electrical circuits, guitar strings, and bridges, while also touching on the mathematical formulation involved in determining natural frequencies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the natural frequency of a mass-spring system is determined by the mass and the spring constant, while for electrical circuits, it depends on inductance and capacitance.
  • Others question how natural frequency is determined in more complex systems like guitar strings, the Tacoma Narrows bridge, or a wine glass with water.
  • One participant notes that calculating mechanical resonance frequencies can be straightforward in principle but may require complex numerical simulations for intricate objects, emphasizing the need to solve the wave equation based on parameters like speed of sound and geometry.
  • A participant mentions that even simple shapes can involve complicated mathematics, typically covered in university-level courses such as Fourier analysis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that natural frequency is system-dependent and that more complex systems present additional challenges. However, there is no consensus on the specific methods or mathematical formulations applicable to all scenarios discussed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of determining natural frequencies in various systems, noting that assumptions about parameters and the mathematical approaches required can vary significantly based on the system's characteristics.

audreyh
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What gives rise to natural frequency? Resonance is when an oscillating force has a frequency that matches the natural frequency of a system... but what gives rise to the natural frequency of the system?
 
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That depends on the system. For a mass on a spring, the natural frequency depends on the mass and the spring constant (stiffness of the spring). For an oscillating electrical circuit, the natural frequency depends on the inductance and capacitance. Etc.
 
jtbell said:
That depends on the system. For a mass on a spring, the natural frequency depends on the mass and the spring constant (stiffness of the spring). For an oscillating electrical circuit, the natural frequency depends on the inductance and capacitance. Etc.

Thanks for the reply! So how about for a complicated system like a guitar string, or the Tacoma Narrows bridge, or a wine glass with water in it.

Also, do you know of a textbook that covers the mathematical formulation of showing the natural frequency? Would it be in Marion and Thorton's classical mechanics book?
 
Calculating the mechanical resonance frequencies (note the plural, real object always have MANY resonance frequencies, if you count the harmonics infinitely many) for an object is easy in principle but can be extremely complicated for object such as a bridge; in most cases you need numerical simulations.
However, the basic idea is simply to solve the wave equation for that object: the "in" parameters being the speed of sound and the geometry.

But again, the math is quite complicated since the wave equation is a partial differential equation (albeit a simple one); even simple shapes such as a disc require university level math (usually covered in courses in Fourier analysis).
 

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