News What happened with S. 190 and why was it not passed?

[Cyrus]

Her job was to memorize as much as possible.

CNN, it seems the overwhelming consensus is that Joe Biden was the most informed, the most factual, and the only one that answered all of the questions. Palin was dinged for avoiding answering several questions by bringing up her Alaskan energy "comfort zone" which was absolutely ridiculous, like in bringing it up when asked about mortgage bankruptcies.

I flipped to FOX news, and the audience they had all said (almost all of them) palin won. HAHAHAHAHA. What a bunch of idiots. From the live off stage set at BUDWEISER.

I mean, these people looked like they had no more than high school diplomas. "She talked like one of us, I liked her"

 

[OrbitalPower]

I hate how conservatives claim to be the most "rational" and "clear speaking people" and then prefer people like Bush or Palin.

Remember, Bush made far more gaffes than Palin in 2000 (google "Bushisms" or read "Bush Dyslexicon") and he still won.

The problem with Palin is that she got a lot of facts wrong, that she was corrected on, deferred to whatever she wanted to talk about (probably what she had meemorized) when asked a question, and so on.

But, a blow out would be a score of like 80 to 20 in favor of biden winning in a poll.

 

[Astronuc]

Tonight - Charlie Rose has assembled a team to analyze the debate.

 

[tribdog]

Wow, you bunch of one sided democrats. I thought you were scientists here, or at least scientific. In science sometimes you get results you don't want or weren't expecting, you still have to acknowledge those results. Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likeable competent candidates. The only one who I see coming across as a fool is Cyrus for his obviously biased comments and Evo you are right behind him. I give the win to Palin and it surprises me. there's more to her than a pretty face. I doubt many votes will change because of this debate, but I think some people who were leaning towards switching to Obama might be swayed back. I'm not going to argue minute points of this was wrong or this was wrong, overall it was a good debate and both candidates did a good job. They did what a vp is supposed to do. Saying either one "destroyed" the other is just asinine.

 

[Evo]

I love the difference in criteria for Biden and Plain.

Biden: He was well informed, factual, reserved, didn't make fun of her when she kept saying "McClellan", probably the best debate of his life.

Palin: She didn't say anything incredibly stupid although she still talked in circles and gave irrelevant answers to a lot of answers, She won!

OY.

Oh come on tribdog. Gives us some great, accurate, and insightful answers she gave. I stand by my assessment of her, which I am seeing highly paid professional political journalists agree with. I am feeling very accurate in my assessment right now.

 

[Astronuc]

At one point, I believe she did declare herself an energy expert. What unmitigated and utter nonsense.

She was coached, and she regurgitated the comments of others.


She didn't have any 'Tina Fey moments', which one commentator claimed as a success.

However, she is substatively empty.


I'm an independent.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Wow, you bunch of one sided democrats. I thought you were scientists here, or at least scientific. In science sometimes you get results you don't want or weren't expecting, you still have to acknowledge those results. Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likeable competent candidates. The only one who I see coming across as a fool is Cyrus for his obviously biased comments and Evo you are right behind him. I give the win to Palin and it surprises me. there's more to her than a pretty face. I doubt many votes will change because of this debate, but I think some people who were leaning towards switching to Obama might be swayed back. I'm not going to argue minute points of this was wrong or this was wrong, overall it was a good debate and both candidates did a good job. They did what a vp is supposed to do. Saying either one "destroyed" the other is just asinine.

I thought they both did well. And I really liked seeing them talking to each other and smiling after the debate was over. I wish I knew what they were saying then.

 

[tribdog]

If the "job" of the debaters was to list fact after fact we could have a red and a blue Pentium sitting on the podium. The job of the debaters is to not look stupid and to make their running mate look good. they both did their job. Are the standards different for each candidate? No, each one had to dispute the labels they've been given in the media. Palin has been hit hardest and I'm not saying she didn't deserve it. I don't agree with Palin's politics. I am pro choice and I have no problem with gay marriage. I like Obama/Biden better than McCain/Palin. You simply cannot look at this debate fairly and objectively and say there was a clear winner. I also refuse to base an assessment of a person's intelligence on their accent, because I know if I grew up where Palin did I would say things like "gee" more than I do.

 

[cristo]

I'm an independent.

I don't even live in the US, and if it were Obama v McCain, I'm not sure who I'd vote for, but the interviews of Palin over the last few weeks scared me, and this put the icing on the cake. I honestly think that she will be a danger to the world should she be elected. I mean, come on, how can she be entrusted with being one 'heartbeat away' from the most powerful position in the world? She can't even pronounce the word nuclear.

 

[rootX]

Wow, you bunch of one sided democrats. I thought you were scientists here, or at least scientific. In science sometimes you get results you don't want or weren't expecting, you still have to acknowledge those results. Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likeable competent candidates. The only one who I see coming across as a fool is Cyrus for his obviously biased comments and Evo you are right behind him. I give the win to Palin and it surprises me. there's more to her than a pretty face. I doubt many votes will change because of this debate, but I think some people who were leaning towards switching to Obama might be swayed back. I'm not going to argue minute points of this was wrong or this was wrong, overall it was a good debate and both candidates did a good job. They did what a vp is supposed to do. Saying either one "destroyed" the other is just asinine.

What's your criteria?

 

[LowlyPion]

Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likable competent candidates. ...

Actually about as I expected. She was still plagued by rambling incoherence at time. Her knowledge is apparently superficial and seriously lacking when it came to her understanding about VP responsibilities, about the broader arch of foreign policy, going so far as talking about something that I thought was simply stupid to put the US Embassy in Jerusalem to inflame things further.

Sadly winning points as a beauty contestant requires little more than cutsie remarks. The prize here requires a bit more horsepower than she apparently has. She offered little insight as to policy and apparently commands little more than rote command of phrasing. Beneath her hecks and goshes I think still lays a very shallow thinker.

 

[Evo]

The job of the debaters is to not look stupid and to make their running mate look good.

Says who? Certainly not people trying to find out how much Palin knows, if anything, about Federal Government and how she would handle things. She left those people empty.

And come on, she scraped bottom of the barrel with "about being a mom, about having a son in Iraq about having a special needs child". Biden got her good on that one.

 

[LowlyPion]

Shocker:

FoxNews audience sees Palin the winner 86% to 12%.

Dick Morris shooting his mouth off that the real loser is Hilary Clinton because there is a new woman in politics. And Palin is a superstar. Oh geez.

And now Lieberman saying she was fantastic.

Guiliani too.

They have recreated the Republican Convention.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I'm an omnivore.

That's like saying that you're a brain surgeon but do proctology on the side to get a broader perspective.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

FoxNews audience sees Palin the winner 86% to 12%.

Apparently the Fox viewers don't require actual answers to questions. What a surprise!

What they mean is that she didn't torpedo the campaign.

 

[asdfggfdsa]

Palin used the homespun sappiness and energy 'expertise' to duck out of questions.

I wasn't too impressed with her, but I have mixed opinions about how it will affect the race. I'm not sure if, on aggregate, people will name a winner. I suspect that the debate will be quickly forgotten; the presidential debates are the main event.

 

[tribdog]

Neither candidate answered the questions as they were asked, that's just the way politicians are.
Evo you are just being picky because I said you were looking foolish. I apologize. If you were to ask either one of these two "off the record" what they thought their duty was in this debate they would agree "don't look stupid and support my running mate." This isn't a written law, but it is a valuable heuristic. "try to come up with a strong sound bite and make my competitor look bad" is another one. this is the short attention span generation and image is everything. What good is knowing all the facts when an over enthusiastic yell at a pep rally is enough to lose you an election?
I don't care if a candidate doesn't know all the facts. I do care whether a candidate can understand the facts when it becomes necessary.

 

[Evo]

Neither candidate answered the questions as they were asked, that's just the way politicians are.
Evo you are just being picky because I said you were looking foolish. I apologize. If you were to ask either one of these two "off the record" what they thought their duty was in this debate they would agree "don't look stupid and support my running mate." This isn't a written law, but it is a valuable heuristic. "try to come up with a strong sound bite and make my competitor look bad" is another one. this is the short attention span generation and image is everything. What good is knowing all the facts when an over enthusiastic yell at a pep rally is enough to lose you an election?
I don't care if a candidate doesn't know all the facts. I do care whether a candidate can understand the facts when it becomes necessary.

You think I take anything you say seriously?

You missed the Joe Lieberman discussion.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1898331&postcount=32

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A few interesting observations from the CNN dynamic tracking. An even mix of Ohio Dems, Reps, and Inds, who say that they are persuadable, constantly responded to the discourse by turning a knob to + or - to indicate approval or disapproval.

Palin took dive every time she said the word "maverick". She took a hit when she mentioned Wasilla and her claim of taking-on the big oil interests. She received a huge drop from women when she used the word "rape" in regards to the coastal oil reserves. There was often a large gap between the response of men and women in both directions, but she seemed to receive greater approval from men when she rambled without saying anything. The women seemed to recognize that she didn't say anything.

I thought that all in all, Palin did extremely well based on expectations, but Biden won hands down. After the debate, the participants were asked if anyone's vote was settled as a result of the debate. Seven answered in the affirmative, with six indicating that they would vote for Obama. So this suggests that Biden did extremely well with undecided voters.

 

[LowlyPion]

The initial handshake smalltalk where she asks if she can call him "Joe" apparently was the set up for the "Tell me it ain't so Joe" line. Totally rehearsed, prepackaged propaganda. Image over content.

We've surely had 8 years too many of this kind of vapid image over substance approach to solving the Nation's problems.

 

[Astronuc]

One of several lines to which I took exception was Palin's explanation or more accurately misrepresentation of John McCain's comment about the fact the fundamentals of the economy were strong. She falsely claims he was talking about the American workforce. Such nonsense is detestable.

 

[Cyrus]

Anyone else notice the look of digust on Biden's face when she said "oh your wife was a teacher for 35 years, I'm sure that's her prize in heaven"...

He had this look behind that smile like you B****.

 

[LowlyPion]

One of several lines to which I took exception was Palin's explanation or more accurately misrepresentation of John McCain's comment about the fact the fundamentals of the economy were strong. She falsely claims he was talking about the American workforce. Such nonsense is detestable.

The Republican spin doctors have been working overtime like cats in a dirty litter box trying to bury McCain's imitation of Hoover. No matter how much litter they pile on top of it, McCain still ends up smelling like Hoover.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

How about the "he voted not to fund our troops" crap. Both Obama and Biden made it clear that McCain did the same thing because the bill had other provisions that were considered unacceptable, but the Republicans insist on using deception as an election tool.

Just more of the McSame.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I prepared for this debate as I do for all of them by getting liquored up. It gives me the false courage I need to listen to a pair of politicians slice and dice each other. And since I committed to the drinking game, the ordeal really set me free. Was I supposed to take one drink because she used watered down taboo words, or one drink for each word? Cheese and crackers, gosh darn me to heck if I know, but I took no chances on sobering up during the course of it. I had a "take out of context, misrepresent, and/or lie" detector pointed at the radio, but not long into the debate, it flashed and burned. Then the debate was over. For those people who think that the best thing about Palin is that Alaska is as far away from here as you can get, you won't like it, but she won in a walk. This was not a pop quiz, it was a photo op, and she understood that better than Biden.

 

[Astronuc]

I had a "take out of context, misrepresent, and/or lie" detector pointed at the radio, but not long into the debate, it flashed and burned.

Yeah - the political rhetoric was thick on both sides.

For some, it was a photo op, but for others it was a chance to hear some details. I was more disappointed by Biden, because I expected details. I didn't have such expectations for Palin from whom I expected quips, one-liners, empty rhetoric and propaganda - and I heard what I expected. Biden did his fair share of rhetoric as well, but he was substantive.

I would have liked to hear their views of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 and what oversight and review there will be.

 

[BobG]

How about the "he voted not to fund our troops" crap. Both Obama and Biden made it clear that McCain did the same thing because the bill had other provisions that were considered unacceptable, but the Republicans insist on using deception as an election tool.

Just more of the McSame.

This part really impressed me with Biden. Both times he brought it up, he was careful to include the specific reason McCain voted against it. Biden engaged in a thinking person's debate and honesty isn't a liability - at least if you're good. It showed courage and a lot of confidence in his own ability to confront the other side straight up.

I'm a little surprised he didn't mention McCain's votes on veterans' benefits, though.

 

[turbo]

I'm a little surprised he didn't mention McCain's votes on veterans' benefits, though.

That might have given Palin an opening, since she has a son headed to Iraq. The only time she seemed to make any points at all it was with folksy zingers, not substance, and Biden had to watch out for traps. She got him when she asked if she could call him Joe before the debate and later nailed him with "Say it ain't so, Joe".

 

[LowlyPion]

I think the only thing that the debate accomplished was to salvage Palin's flagging reputation and show that she isn't completely the retarded beauty contestant she has suggested she might be in the past weeks of awful interview moments that she can blame on no one but herself.

Had there been any more of those moments last night, her career in politics would likely be a crater, maybe even back home in Alaska too, if the ethics charges get to the point of exposing her apparent misuse of office. At this point it looks like the McCain Palin team can limp to the finish, with a stiff upper lip, but with full knowledge of what awaits in the end - McCain into retirement and Palin to the realms of local politics in Alaska.

 

[LowlyPion]

I would have liked to hear their views of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 and what oversight and review there will be.

I think that is a toxic subject.

McCain got too close and inexplicably tried to take credit and has been slimed by his hubris and demonstration that he played so little part except insofar as he was disrupting.

Surprisingly Obama - younger and inexperienced as McCain would like to project - played the surer hand and stayed away from the fray or grabbing at credit, stealing a march on the Republicans suggesting the 250K extension of the FDIC limit - which was adopted - revealing to my mind a better reading of the political tea leaves than the self-styled wizened legislative lion McCain.