News What happened with S. 190 and why was it not passed?

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The upcoming debate between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden is anticipated to showcase a significant disparity in their debate skills, with many expecting Biden to dominate. Palin's reputation for using vague generalities and rehearsed lines may hinder her ability to engage effectively with Biden, who is seen as articulate and well-prepared. Observers believe that while Biden should maintain composure and let Palin expose her weaknesses, there is a risk he could become overly aggressive or make a gaffe. Despite low expectations for Palin, some argue that her performance may resonate with her base, complicating the narrative of the debate. Overall, the debate is viewed as a critical moment that could impact the McCain-Palin campaign significantly.
  • #51
I didn't realize both parties were against gay marriage: that's stuck in the dark ages a little, isn't it?:smile: :smile: That last answer was great... Palin talking about their 'plan' on Iraq.. Biden: "Well, with all due respect, I didn't hear a plan there."
 
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  • #52
cristo said:
I didn't realize both parties were against gay marriage: that's stuck in the dark ages a little, isn't it?
This is a religious thing here in the US. Palin was going off on a tangent suggesting that by Obama and Biden supporting same sex couples rights they were redefining what marriage is.

:smile: Palin NUCULER :smile:
 
  • #53
9:48 Palin has just said nukyular 5 times in about 10 seconds while spewing crap about Iran and Pakistan... ugh
 
  • #54
Oh bad Biden, he said McCain refused to sit down in discussions with Spain, not true! McCain wasn't sure that we had diplomatic ties to Spain, it being in Latin America.
 
  • #55
Maverick? take another drink!... :smile:
 
  • #56
Evo said:
Oh bad Biden, he said McCain refused to sit down in discussions with Spain, not true! McCain wasn't sure that we had diplomatic ties to Spain, it being in Latin America.

Only a half hour to go. 1 minor gaffe isn't the worst that could have happened.
 
  • #57
Nukylur over and over again...
 
  • #58
She couldn't sound coherent in a sit down with reporters, but here she's getting by? Something's up.
 
  • #59
Cyclovenom said:
Maverick? take another drink!... :smile:

You can't be still playing the game ... your blood alcohol would be about 20% by now.
 
  • #60
Palin has certainly been rehearsed. Her delivery is smooth, but she is short on facts - but long on empty rhetoric.


For example - She still misrepresents McCain on the current financial crisis. McCain did not seen any of this coming!

McCain's 'warning' on Fannie & Freddie?
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/sep/17/mccains-warning-fannie-and-freddie/
SUMMARY: McCain spoke up after a widely read report drew attention to chicanery at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but it’s a huge stretch to suggest he could have somehow averted the current crisis.

The turmoil on Wall Street is prompting the presidential candidates to offer prescriptions for restoring order to U.S. financial markets. John McCain is using the opportunity to remind voters that he called on Congress to crack down on government-chartered mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Appearing on CNN’s American Morning on Sept. 16, 2008, McCain sought to blame much of the crisis on Wall Street greed and inept or corrupt government regulators. “Ask any American citizen who has been the victim of a bureaucrat or a bureaucracy,” McCain said. “I said two years ago that the Fannie and Freddie thing was a very serious problem and we had to work on it. And I have always opposed greed of Wall Street and I know how we can fix this.”

McCain echoed his remarks later in the day during a speech in Tampa, saying, “Two years ago, I warned the administration and the Congress that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac needed to be fixed. It turns out, the problem was even bigger. They waited too long, and now we have a housing crisis, three bailouts with taxpayers’ money, and a financial crisis.”

In both appearances, McCain was referring to his 2006 decision to sign on to a Republican-led regulatory overhaul of the mortgage-financing firms, which both went through multibillion-dollar accounting scandals earlier in the decade. The occasion that prompted McCain’s involvement was the release of a 340-page report from the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight that concluded that Fannie Mae had manipulated earnings and violated basic accounting principles. It describes an “arrogant and unethical corporate culture” in which executives were more concerned about their bonuses than meeting the company’s housing mission.

The findings, based on a 27-month investigation and resulting in a $400-million fine paid to the government, prompted McCain to join other critics and call for more scrutiny of Fannie and its sibling, Freddie Mac. “If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole,” McCain declared in a May 26, 2006, news release.

So it’s true that McCain spoke out — after a widely read report drew attention to chicanery at the firms. But the implication in McCain's remarks is that his remarks in 2006 were in some way a warning about the financial markets disaster that struck in 2008. That strikes us as quite a stretch.

First of all, congressional efforts to increase oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac extend back to the early 1990s, making McCain a latecomer to the debate. The regulatory efforts proved unsuccessful because of Congress’ complicated relationship with the firms, whose dominance in the home financing market makes their stability critical to the economy.

Even if the 2006 effort to strengthen oversight had succeeded, it’s debatable whether it would have averted the subprime crisis. The extent of the problems was not yet fully known, and it’s a leap of faith to suggest that regulators granted expanded power would have noticed a deterioration in Fannie and Freddie’s loan portfolios soon enough and would have sounded an alarm. . . .
 
  • #61
Is she winking or is it a nervous tick?

Palin: "Oh, gosh darn it, could I be more corny?" Can the woman not take this seriously? Is she going to get into nuculer arms discussions "wink, wink"?
 
  • #62
Palin is absolutely wrong about Afghanistan and she's spouting propaganda.


The US military has struck villages and has killed many civilians. That's documented.

The US government has failed to provide funds promised to Afghanistan. Private entities from the US are.

USAID claims that schools and clinics are being built in Afghanistan. This has yet to be verified. http://www.usaid.gov/locations/asia_near_east/countries/afghanistan/
Investing In People: Health and Education
In 2002, when schools first reopened, ninety-seven percent of the country's girls did not attend school. By the end of Taliban rule, 80 percent of existing schools were either severely damaged or destroyed. To improve the situation, USAID has constructed or refurbished over 670 schools and distributed textbooks, school supplies and training materials. USAID created an accelerated learning program that enrolled over 170,000 students, more than half of which were girls. USAID also works to improve the quality of teaching, management, and information systems at Afghan universities, and teacher training through radio broadcasts reaches 65,000 teachers daily in all 34 provinces.

The health status of Afghans is among the worst in the world - one out of every five Afghan children dies before the age of five. To provide Afghans with access to basic health services, USAID has constructed or refurbished over 670 clinics throughout the country, established over 3,000 health posts, and supports the operations of 360 health facilities, including the provision of all medicines and expendable supplies. USAID has also trained over 1,000 midwives to work in hospitals and clinics throughout the country, which has helped reduce maternal and infant mortality.
 
  • #63
Wow! she's rambling!
 
  • #64
Evo said:
Is she winking or is it a nervous tick?

did it again!

did she start talking about education when they were talking about economies?
 
  • #65
Astronuc said:
Palin is absolutely wrong about Afghanistan and she's spouting propaganda.


The US military has struck villages and has killed many civilians. That's documented.

She clearly has no clue!


Did she just basically push for more power? Wow.. so not only is she crazy, but she's also power hungry!
 
  • #66
Palin on the VP's role... Train Wreck!
 
  • #67
Unless she's going to give her speeches naked, or maybe even partially naked, I'm going to just ignore her until she goes away. I already know who I'm voting for anyway.
 
  • #68
9:20 Palin is puking bad - word-pile!
 
  • #69
Palin just hit rock bottom "about being a mom, about having a son in Iraq, about having a special needs child". I have never ever heard a man claim that being a father gives him any special abilities, yet she keeps regurgitating this like it has some meaning.
 
  • #70
Maverick again?? another drink for me!...

<- just drinking when she says maverick, forget the rest, I love my liver.
 
  • #71
I've lost track of the "mavericks"
 
  • #72
Evo said:
I have never ever heard a man claim that being a father gives him any special abilities, yet she keeps regurgitating this like it has some meaning.

And look what Biden pulled out in response.. fighting back tears when talking about his family and his son who obviously had some problems/accident (I don't know the history).

Now he's picked up on the 'maverick' card, and pointing out the crap there. Haha.. fantastic!
 
  • #73
Evo said:
Palin just hit rock bottom "about being a mom, about having a son in Iraq, about having a special needs child". I have never ever heard a man claim that being a father gives him any special abilities, yet she keeps regurgitating this like it has some meaning.

But that's the kind of gingerbread talk many uncertain McCain voters eat up. Sweet and empty.
 
  • #74
cristo said:
And look what Biden pulled out in response.. fighting back tears when talking about his family and his son who obviously had some problems/accident (I don't know the history).
It's sad, he got her back on that one. Good for him. Maybe that will shut her up. (I doubt it)

In her wildest dreams she's never faced what he went through.
 
  • #75
cristo said:
And look what Biden pulled out in response.. fighting back tears when talking about his family and his son who obviously had some problems/accident (I don't know the history).

Now he's picked up on the 'maverick' card, and pointing out the crap there. Haha.. fantastic!

His family history:
WikiPedia said:
But then Biden's wife and year-old daughter were killed in an automobile accident while Christmas shopping in Hockessin, Delaware on December 18, 1972, just a few weeks after the election. (Neilia Biden's station wagon was hit by a tractor-trailer as she pulled out from an intersection; the truck driver was cleared of any wrongdoing.) Biden's two sons, Beau and Hunter, were critically injured in the accident, ...
 
  • #76
OAQfirst said:
But that's the kind of gingerbread talk many uncertain McCain voters eat up. Sweet and empty.
Unfortunately, it's true.
 
  • #77
OAQfirst said:
She couldn't sound coherent in a sit down with reporters, but here she's getting by? Something's up.

Girls can talk...

I thought she did a great job tonight.

Obama & Palin! '08!

...

Moral turpitude?... that's me... :redface:
 
  • #78
I sure wish these Democrats would stop whining about Exxon getting tax breaks. Geez. One of the stocks I have that's doing sort of OK.
 
  • #79
cristo said:
And look what Biden pulled out in response.. fighting back tears when talking about his family and his son who obviously had some problems/accident (I don't know the history).

Now he's picked up on the 'maverick' card, and pointing out the crap there. Haha.. fantastic!
Biden's first wife and daughter were killed, and two sons injured. I expect he was wondering back then if one of his sons was going to live or not.

But then Biden's wife and year-old daughter were killed in an automobile accident while Christmas shopping in Hockessin, Delaware on December 18, 1972, just a few weeks after the election. (Neilia Biden's station wagon was hit by a tractor-trailer as she pulled out from an intersection; the truck driver was cleared of any wrongdoing.) Biden's two sons, Beau and Hunter, were critically injured in the accident, but both eventually made full recoveries. Biden considered resigning in order to care for them; persuaded not to by Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield, he was sworn into office from one of their bedsides. The accident left Biden filled with both anger and religious doubt: "I liked to [walk around seedy neighborhoods] at night when I thought there was a better chance of finding a fight ... I had not known I was capable of such rage ... I felt God had played a horrible trick on me."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden#Family_and_early_political_career

What I got from a Fox news affiliate. :smile:
Joe Biden - experienced
Sarah Palin - folksy (winking at the camera)
 
  • #80
Biden did OK, Palin seemed to go off on tangents instead of concentrating on the actual questions. Still Palin didn't act quite as stupid as he has been, so the GOP will be crowing about how she knocked it out of the park.
 
  • #81
Well, clearly it wasn't a "knock out for biden" and she had few blatant gaffes, at least no more than Biden.

I think Biden won the debate though obviously and he seemed very genuine. He did much better than Obama, and he did a better job of addressing his opponent's points. I thought he had a clever answer ever attack she leveraged against him.

I wish Biden was the Democrats presidential nominee, he's great.

His remarks that we need a change in our economic philosophy and that there is a toxic mess on wall street affecting mainstreet were brilliant.
 
  • #82
The memorization of part's of Reagan's farewell address was a little too much of a gimmick. It's too bad that she apparently has so little thought of her own.
 
  • #83
turbo-1 said:
Biden did OK, Palin seemed to go off on tangents instead of concentrating on the actual questions. Still Palin didn't act quite as stupid as he has been, so the GOP will be crowing about how she knocked it out of the park.

That's just what Pat Buchannan was effusing. I think he must have wet his pants he was so happy. Hope he was wearing fresh Depends.
 
  • #84
LowlyPion said:
The memorization of part's of Reagan's farewell address was a little too much of a gimmick. It's too bad that she apparently has so little thought of her own.
Her job was to memorize as much as possible.

CNN, it seems the overwhelming consensus is that Joe Biden was the most informed, the most factual, and the only one that answered all of the questions. Palin was dinged for avoiding answering several questions by bringing up her Alaskan energy "comfort zone" which was absolutely ridiculous, like in bringing it up when asked about mortgage bankruptcies.
 
  • #85
Looks like FoxNews has assembled a Popeil late night audience of headbobbers that are supposed to be "typical" voters - maybe of their lame target audience. Apparently some of them were fed lines because they didn't do that good a job reciting. An unbelievable display of bald propaganda. And true to form the Fox spinners in the tent outside are high-fiving themselves and predicting a massive shift in polling data.
 
  • #86
KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM>



She just got blown away. EVO, you must be smashed right now you MAVRICK, don't cha-know.
 
  • #87
Cyrus said:
KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM>



She just got blown away. EVO, you must be smashed right now you MAVRICK, don't cha-know.
If I wasn't drinking Fresca, I would have had a fatal blood alcohol level 12 minutes into the debate. You bet you "wink, wink".
 
  • #88
LowlyPion said:
Looks like FoxNews has assembled a Popeil late night audience of headbobbers that are supposed to be "typical" voters - maybe of their lame target audience. Apparently some of them were fed lines because they didn't do that good a job reciting. An unbelievable display of bald propaganda. And true to form the Fox spinners in the tent outside are high-fiving themselves and predicting a massive shift in polling data.
How can you even watch that?

CNN did polls, Biden won.
 
  • #89
Evo said:
How can you even watch that?

CNN did polls, Biden won.

I'm an omnivore.

I know what Rachel Maddow thinks. I want to hear the ignorant Fox propagandists first hand to get a broader idea of things.

I heard from Fred Thompson how absolutely thrilled he was that she proved the media wrong and how splendidly she did.
 
  • #90
Evo said:
If I wasn't drinking Fresca, I would have had a fatal blood alcohol level 12 minutes into the debate. You bet you "wink, wink".

Gosh darnet! Ge golly. Jimmy Jillikers batman!
 
  • #91
Evo said:
Her job was to memorize as much as possible.

CNN, it seems the overwhelming consensus is that Joe Biden was the most informed, the most factual, and the only one that answered all of the questions. Palin was dinged for avoiding answering several questions by bringing up her Alaskan energy "comfort zone" which was absolutely ridiculous, like in bringing it up when asked about mortgage bankruptcies.

I flipped to FOX news, and the audience they had all said (almost all of them) palin won. HAHAHAHAHA. What a bunch of idiots. From the live off stage set at BUDWEISER.

I mean, these people looked like they had no more than high school diplomas. "She talked like one of us, I liked her"
 
  • #92
I hate how conservatives claim to be the most "rational" and "clear speaking people" and then prefer people like Bush or Palin.

Remember, Bush made far more gaffes than Palin in 2000 (google "Bushisms" or read "Bush Dyslexicon") and he still won.

The problem with Palin is that she got a lot of facts wrong, that she was corrected on, deferred to whatever she wanted to talk about (probably what she had meemorized) when asked a question, and so on.

But, a blow out would be a score of like 80 to 20 in favor of biden winning in a poll.
 
  • #93
Tonight - Charlie Rose has assembled a team to analyze the debate.
 
  • #94
Wow, you bunch of one sided democrats. I thought you were scientists here, or at least scientific. In science sometimes you get results you don't want or weren't expecting, you still have to acknowledge those results. Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likeable competent candidates. The only one who I see coming across as a fool is Cyrus for his obviously biased comments and Evo you are right behind him. I give the win to Palin and it surprises me. there's more to her than a pretty face. I doubt many votes will change because of this debate, but I think some people who were leaning towards switching to Obama might be swayed back. I'm not going to argue minute points of this was wrong or this was wrong, overall it was a good debate and both candidates did a good job. They did what a vp is supposed to do. Saying either one "destroyed" the other is just asinine.
 
  • #95
I love the difference in criteria for Biden and Plain.

Biden: He was well informed, factual, reserved, didn't make fun of her when she kept saying "McClellan", probably the best debate of his life.

Palin: She didn't say anything incredibly stupid although she still talked in circles and gave irrelevant answers to a lot of answers, She won!

OY.

Oh come on tribdog. Gives us some great, accurate, and insightful answers she gave. I stand by my assessment of her, which I am seeing highly paid professional political journalists agree with. I am feeling very accurate in my assessment right now.
 
  • #96
At one point, I believe she did declare herself an energy expert. What unmitigated and utter nonsense.

She was coached, and she regurgitated the comments of others.


She didn't have any 'Tina Fey moments', which one commentator claimed as a success.

However, she is substatively empty.


I'm an independent.
 
  • #97
tribdog said:
Wow, you bunch of one sided democrats. I thought you were scientists here, or at least scientific. In science sometimes you get results you don't want or weren't expecting, you still have to acknowledge those results. Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likeable competent candidates. The only one who I see coming across as a fool is Cyrus for his obviously biased comments and Evo you are right behind him. I give the win to Palin and it surprises me. there's more to her than a pretty face. I doubt many votes will change because of this debate, but I think some people who were leaning towards switching to Obama might be swayed back. I'm not going to argue minute points of this was wrong or this was wrong, overall it was a good debate and both candidates did a good job. They did what a vp is supposed to do. Saying either one "destroyed" the other is just asinine.

I thought they both did well. And I really liked seeing them talking to each other and smiling after the debate was over. I wish I knew what they were saying then.
 
  • #98
If the "job" of the debaters was to list fact after fact we could have a red and a blue Pentium sitting on the podium. The job of the debaters is to not look stupid and to make their running mate look good. they both did their job. Are the standards different for each candidate? No, each one had to dispute the labels they've been given in the media. Palin has been hit hardest and I'm not saying she didn't deserve it. I don't agree with Palin's politics. I am pro choice and I have no problem with gay marriage. I like Obama/Biden better than McCain/Palin. You simply cannot look at this debate fairly and objectively and say there was a clear winner. I also refuse to base an assessment of a person's intelligence on their accent, because I know if I grew up where Palin did I would say things like "gee" more than I do.
 
  • #99
Astronuc said:
I'm an independent.

I don't even live in the US, and if it were Obama v McCain, I'm not sure who I'd vote for, but the interviews of Palin over the last few weeks scared me, and this put the icing on the cake. I honestly think that she will be a danger to the world should she be elected. I mean, come on, how can she be entrusted with being one 'heartbeat away' from the most powerful position in the world? She can't even pronounce the word nuclear.
 
  • #100
tribdog said:
Wow, you bunch of one sided democrats. I thought you were scientists here, or at least scientific. In science sometimes you get results you don't want or weren't expecting, you still have to acknowledge those results. Palin did a good job tonight and came across much much better than I was expecting her to. Both of them came across as likeable competent candidates. The only one who I see coming across as a fool is Cyrus for his obviously biased comments and Evo you are right behind him. I give the win to Palin and it surprises me. there's more to her than a pretty face. I doubt many votes will change because of this debate, but I think some people who were leaning towards switching to Obama might be swayed back. I'm not going to argue minute points of this was wrong or this was wrong, overall it was a good debate and both candidates did a good job. They did what a vp is supposed to do. Saying either one "destroyed" the other is just asinine.

What's your criteria?
 
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