What happens when you remove an excessive amount of electrons.

In summary, the conversation discusses using the photoelectric effect to remove electrons from a water molecule and the potential for the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to separate due to repulsion from the protons. This process is known as coulomb explosion and is a tool used in chemistry and physics. The conversation also touches on nuclear decay and the stability of oxygen nuclei. Additionally, the topic of molecule ionization and its applications in particle accelerators and high intensity laser physics is mentioned. The individual asking the questions has a theoretical interest in finding new and efficient techniques, and the conversation has helped with their research. The conversation also references the use of COLTRIMS, an analysis technique that uses molecule fragmentation to study chemical properties.
  • #1
Jason White
44
1
Lets take a simple water molecule for example. You can use the photoelectric effect to remove electrons from a molecule. As a thought experiment, let's say you have a contained single water molecule in a vacuum with no impurities. Perfect Vacuum. If you use the Photoelectric effect and beam specifically wave-legthed photons at it in a succession to remove electrons one after the other, and let's assume that this electron that is removed goes away and never comes back. After removing enough electrons, will the repulsion from the protons in the hydrogens and the oxygen atom cause the hydrogen and oxygen to separate? Or perhaps with other simple compounds as well besides water, i would assume the same process would work to separate elements.
 
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  • #2
Jason White said:
After removing enough electrons, will the repulsion from the protons in the hydrogens and the oxygen atom cause the hydrogen and oxygen to separate?
Yes. This is called coulomb explosion.
 
  • #3
mfb said:
Yes. This is called coulomb explosion.
Could you please elaborate on this? I asked brother (Chemistry Major (almost, if not 4.0 GPA) in my fraternity) and he said that it could happen (didn't mention Coulomb Explosion) but that the oxygen may not be recoverable since it would undergo (possibly) nuclear decay.
 
  • #4
The keyword coulomb explosion should give enough material. He should have heard of it, it is a nice tool somewhere between chemistry and physics. If you remove the binding electrons and/or make the components so charged that they repel each other too much, the atoms fly apart.
Nuclear decays have (almost*) nothing to do with the electrons around them. And most oxygen nuclei are stable anyway.*they are relevant for electron capture, but that is irrelevant here
 
  • #5
16O (99.757% of natural oxygen) is stable. It will not decay.

Perhaps a chemistry major isn't the person to ask about this, I doubt fully ionizing molecules is something that comes up in chemistry too often. You're most likely to come across it in particle accelerators (slam a molecular beam of whatever into a target) or in high intensity laser physics (see for example http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.73.041201 or http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/16/164028/pdf/0953-4075_46_16_164028.pdf)
 
  • #6
mfb said:
The keyword coulomb explosion should give enough material. He should have heard of it, it is a nice tool somewhere between chemistry and physics. If you remove the binding electrons and/or make the components so charged that they repel each other too much, the atoms fly apart.
Nuclear decays have (almost*) nothing to do with the electrons around them. And most oxygen nuclei are stable anyway.*they are relevant for electron capture, but that is irrelevant here
While he didn't mention it, i also didn't reply to him asking if he knew about the phenomenon. So it could be possible that he knew about it but just didn't mention the name of it.
 
  • #7
e.bar.goum said:
16O (99.757% of natural oxygen) is stable. It will not decay.

Perhaps a chemistry major isn't the person to ask about this, I doubt fully ionizing molecules is something that comes up in chemistry too often. You're most likely to come across it in particle accelerators (slam a molecular beam of whatever into a target) or in high intensity laser physics (see for example http://journals.aps.org/pra/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevA.73.041201 or http://iopscience.iop.org/0953-4075/46/16/164028/pdf/0953-4075_46_16_164028.pdf)
I am a Physics and MechE major. My questions are purely theoretical to I try and think of new ways to do new things or more efficient ways to do old things. While my idea may not seem relevant to the population, there is still a hidden purpose, within, which I'm not yet willing to reveal. And so far, from this thread the answers I've received have only helped with my research. So thank you, to all! This thread is also linked with my thread about BEC's.
 
  • #8
COLTRIMS is an analysis technique that uses the fragmentation of molecules to study their chemical properties.
 
  • #9
mfb said:
COLTRIMS is an analysis technique that uses the fragmentation of molecules to study their chemical properties.

I hadn't heard of COLTRIMS before now (not a molecule person.). That's super neat, thanks mfb!
 

1. What exactly is an excessive amount of electrons?

An excessive amount of electrons refers to an imbalance in the number of electrons and protons in an atom or molecule. This results in a negative charge, as electrons are negatively charged particles.

2. How can an excessive amount of electrons be removed?

An excessive amount of electrons can be removed through a process called ionization, where an electron is physically removed from an atom or molecule. This can also occur through chemical reactions or exposure to electromagnetic radiation.

3. What happens to an atom or molecule when it loses electrons?

When an atom or molecule loses electrons, it becomes positively charged. This can change its chemical properties and how it interacts with other substances.

4. Is removing an excessive amount of electrons dangerous?

Removing an excessive amount of electrons can have potentially dangerous consequences, depending on the context. In certain situations, such as in industrial accidents or lightning strikes, the sudden loss of electrons can cause explosions or fires. However, in controlled environments, such as in electronic devices, removing electrons is necessary for proper functioning.

5. Can removing an excessive amount of electrons be reversed?

In most cases, removing an excessive amount of electrons cannot be reversed. Once an atom or molecule loses an electron, it becomes a different element or compound with its own unique properties. However, in certain cases, such as in rechargeable batteries, electrons can be added back to restore the original state.

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