What is Energy with reference to Human energy and attraction of earth field.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy in relation to human energy and the gravitational field of the Earth. Participants explore the implications of Newton's laws, particularly in the context of static forces and energy expenditure in various scenarios, including holding objects and helicopter operations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that holding an object at a height involves energy release over time, suggesting that gravity acts as a source of energy.
  • Another participant challenges the premise that maintaining a static force results in energy output, arguing that work done is zero when there is no displacement.
  • A participant emphasizes that while humans expend energy, this does not equate to doing external work on the object being held.
  • There is a discussion about the energy required for a helicopter to maintain altitude, with one participant claiming it continuously releases energy, while another clarifies that it does work against air resistance rather than gravity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the interpretation of energy expenditure in static situations and the role of gravity in energy calculations. No consensus is reached regarding the validity of the original claims about energy release and potential energy being a function of time.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference Newton's laws and the concept of work, but there are unresolved assumptions about the definitions of energy and work in static versus dynamic contexts. The discussion also highlights the efficiency of human energy use without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Pareshkumar
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Human body is mass having energy. thanks to Joule it is proved.
Newton explained First, Second and Third laws.

Now,

1. Two equal amount of forces in opposite direction at a given time may not move the OBJECT as per third law of Newton. This is horizontal pull like Tug-of-War. Here 'x' amount of energy is released at one end, and as OBJECT is not moved in either direction opposite end may also have released equal amount of energy i.e. 'x'.
OBJECT is not moved and total release of energy is 'x'+'x'='2x'.

2. Now let you hold an OBJECT at one meter height having `X`kgs of weight for a given period of time this is a vertical position comparing to the tug-of-war. You are constantly releasing your energy with passing of time.

As time increases you release more energy and another person could replace you to hold the OBJECT in the same state of position, he would also release energy with passing of time...Now as per (1.) above OBJECT is not moved and equal amount of energy is released from opposite ends. If we measure amount of energy 'x' used to hold the OBJECT at given height during given time then it would be same amount of energy used from other end i.e. Earth due to effect of attraction on field. (GRAVITY?).

Thus, we can say that Gravity is source of energy and calculation of Potential energy (mgh), would it not be function of time? i.e. where‘t’ is time taken to hold an OBJECT.
 
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Your first premise is wrong: maintaining a static force does not have output energy and doesn't necessarily have input energy either. A person yes, a suspension bridge no.
 
thanks,

when a reply is 'a person yes', suspension bridge is non relevant. here with help of energy release attampt is made to prove new source of energy.

let me put further, to maintain its height a helicopter(here an object) say for rescue operation for an hour it has to continuously release energy(fuel) i. e. mass is at given height at the cost of release of energy. Now as per third law object could be in non equilibrium static state when equal amount of energy expended in opposite directions. therefore conclusion given in original example is correctly arrived.
 
Pareshkumar said:
1. Two equal amount of forces in opposite direction at a given time may not move the OBJECT as per third law of Newton.
No, that is Newton's second law.

Pareshkumar said:
This is horizontal pull like Tug-of-War. Here 'x' amount of energy is released at one end, and as OBJECT is not moved in either direction opposite end may also have released equal amount of energy i.e. 'x'.
OBJECT is not moved and total release of energy is 'x'+'x'='2x'.
No. Work is F.d and since d=0 the work is 0 regardless of F.

Pareshkumar said:
2. Now let you hold an OBJECT at one meter height having `X`kgs of weight for a given period of time this is a vertical position comparing to the tug-of-war. You are constantly releasing your energy with passing of time.
Even if you are lying down you are constantly releasing your energy with passing of time. Humans are very inefficient machines. That lack of efficiency does not imply that they are doing external work.

Pareshkumar said:
OBJECT is not moved and equal amount of energy is released from opposite ends.
Object is not moved therefore the work done on the object is 0.

Pareshkumar said:
Thus, we can say that Gravity is source of energy and calculation of Potential energy (mgh), would it not be function of time? i.e. where‘t’ is time taken to hold an OBJECT.
Gravity is a source of potential energy, but it is not a function of time, your above reasoning is severely flawed.
 
Pareshkumar said:
let me put further, to maintain its height a helicopter(here an object) say for rescue operation for an hour it has to continuously release energy(fuel) i. e. mass is at given height at the cost of release of energy. Now as per third law object could be in non equilibrium static state when equal amount of energy expended in opposite directions. therefore conclusion given in original example is correctly arrived.
A hovering helicopter doesn't do work against gravity, it only does work against the air.
 

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