What is the confusion with the Dedekind Cuts example for √2?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of Dedekind Cuts in relation to the square root of 2. Participants are examining a specific example from a text that describes the properties of rational numbers and their relationships through mathematical expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are trying to understand the implications of the equations presented in the text, particularly regarding the ordering of x, y, and 2. There is confusion about the conditions under which these relationships hold true, as well as the validity of the equations themselves.

Discussion Status

Some participants have pointed out potential errors in the equations, questioning the reality of the values derived from them. Others are exploring the implications of the ordering of the values based on whether x belongs to the left or right class of the Dedekind Cut.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of typographical errors in the equations provided, which may affect the understanding of the problem. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the language used in the text, which may contribute to the confusion among participants.

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Homework Statement


I don't take issue with the 'cuts' but am having difficulty understanding an example given in my text for √2. After going over the right and left classes the text jumps into,

"Then this section is such that the R-class has no least member and the L-class has no greatest member; for, if 'x' be any positive rational fraction and,

$$y=\frac{x(x^2+6)}{3x^2+2}$$ then $$y-x=\frac{2x(2-x^2)}{3x^2+2}$$ and $$y^2-2=\frac{(x^2-2)^3}{(3x^2+2)^2}$$, so x^2,y^2 and 2 are in order of magnitude"

Homework Equations


Given above

The Attempt at a Solution


A look on wikipedia shows that the last part (where it states, '...are in order of magnitude') seems to represent x^2<y^2<2, other than that I don't understand what the author is getting at or where these equations come from.

***EDITED*** To correct a mistake pointed out by Petek.
 
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There appears to be a typo in your above equation for [itex]y^2[/itex]. Both [itex]x[/itex] and [itex]y[/itex] are supposed to be rational numbers. However, if [itex]x=1[/itex], then $$y^2= \frac{-1}{25}$$ so [itex]y[/itex] can't even be real.
 
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Petek said:
There appears to be a typo in your above equation for [itex]y^2[/itex]. Both [itex]x[/itex] and [itex]y[/itex] are supposed to be rational numbers. However, if [itex]x=1[/itex], then $$y^2= \frac{-1}{25}$$ so [itex]y[/itex] can't even be real.

You are correct, I missed a minus 2. Thanks for the correction!
 
I think the author is asserting in somewhat obscure (Hardyish?) language that either ##x^2 < y^2 < 2## or ##2 < y^2 < x^2##, depending on whether ##x \in L## or ##x \in R##.

To see that this is true, consider the two possibilities:

Case 1: ##x \in L##

Then ##x^2 < 2##, so the formulas for ##y-x## and ##y^2 - 2## imply that ##y-x > 0## and ##y^2 - 2 < 0##.

Case 2: ##x \in R##

Then ##x^2 > 2##, so the formulas imply that ##y-x < 0## and ##y^2 - 2 > 0##.
 

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