What is the Definition of 'Cos' in Hyperbolic Geometry?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definition and application of the cosine function in hyperbolic geometry, particularly in the context of space-time diagrams and the Minkowski plane. Participants explore the differences between hyperbolic and Euclidean trigonometric functions and their implications for triangle geometry in these spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on whether the definition of 'Cos' in hyperbolic geometry remains the same as in Euclidean geometry, specifically regarding the adjacent/hypotenuse ratio.
  • Another participant notes that in hyperbolic geometry, the adjacent/hypotenuse ratio only applies to infinitesimal triangles, while for real triangles, it corresponds to the sine of the opposite angle.
  • A participant explains that trigonometric functions in the Euclidean plane are defined using the unit circle, while in the hyperbolic plane, they are defined using the unit hyperbola, leading to the use of cosh and sinh functions.
  • Clarification is provided regarding the context of space-time diagrams, with a distinction made between the Minkowski plane and hyperbolic geometry.
  • One participant expresses confusion about whether the ratios of lengths in right-angle triangles in Minkowski space define sinh and cosh instead of sin and cos due to differing length definitions, especially when one side has zero length.
  • Another participant mentions that Minkowski space is non-isotropic and suggests that there isn't a general equation for triangles in this context.
  • A further contribution discusses the nature of spacelike, timelike, and lightlike directions in Minkowski space and their relationship to angle measures and hyperbolic trigonometric functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the definitions and applications of trigonometric functions in hyperbolic and Minkowski geometries. There is no consensus on the implications of these definitions for triangle geometry in the Minkowski plane.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity arising from the non-isotropic nature of Minkowski space and the differing definitions of length, which complicate the application of traditional trigonometric functions.

Mentz114
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This is not homework. I've been analysing some space-time diagrams and found I need to know the biggest angle in the illustrated triangle in terms of the lengths and the angle A which are known.

I found the equivalent of the cosine rule of Euclidean space for the hyperbolic plane but I'm confused about the definition of 'Cos' on this plane. Is it still adjacent/hypoteneuse ?

Any hints much appreciated.
 

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Mentz114 said:
I found the equivalent of the cosine rule of Euclidean space for the hyperbolic plane but I'm confused about the definition of 'Cos' on this plane. Is it still adjacent/hypoteneuse ?

Hi Mentz114! :smile:

No, it's only adjacent/hypoteneuse for infinitesimal triangles.

For a real triangle, adjacent/hypoteneuse = sine of the opposite angle. :rolleyes:
 
The trig functions can be defined, in the Euclidean plane, in terms of a circle, as the (cos(t),sin(t)) coordinates of a point a distance t around the unit circle, x^2+ y^2= 1, counterclockwise from (1, 0)

The equivalent in the hyperbolic plane are (x, y) coordinates of a point a distance t along the unit hyperbola, x^2- y^2= 1, upward from (1, 0) and are given by cosh(t), sinh(t).
 
Just to clarify -- you mention space-time diagrams, so I assume you meant to referring to the Minkowski plane (which is the geometry of 1+1-dimensional space-time in special relativity) and not the hyperbolic plane (which satisfies all of the usual axioms of Euclidean plane geometry except for the parallel postulate).
 
… oops!

Hurkyl said:
Just to clarify -- you mention space-time diagrams, so I assume you meant to referring to the Minkowski plane

ooh, I didn't spot that! :redface:

Ignore my previous post … it only applies to hyperbolic space …

thanks, Hurkyl! :smile:
 
Thanks for the replies. Obviously my confusion is deeper than I thought. I am in the Minkowski plane. Do the ratios of the lengths of right angle triangles define sinh, cosh etc instead of sin, cos etc because of the different length definition ?

One of the sides of my triangle has zero length !
 
Mentz114 said:
Thanks for the replies. Obviously my confusion is deeper than I thought. I am in the Minkowski plane. Do the ratios of the lengths of right angle triangles define sinh, cosh etc instead of sin, cos etc because of the different length definition ?

One of the sides of my triangle has zero length !

Hi Mentz114! :smile:

Minkowski space is non-isotropic, and so far as I know there isn't any general equation for triangles.
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi Mentz114! :smile:

Minkowski space is non-isotropic
However, all spacelike directions are the same, as are all timelike directions and all lightlike directions. You even have a sort of antisymmetry between space and time in that swapping them just contributes some negative signs here and there. Also, the lightlike directions are expressable as limits of spacelike or timelike directions.


Incidentally, the angle measure in a mixed spacelike-timelike plane is given by rapidity (and relate to hyperbolic trig functions) -- attempting to use 'Euclidean' angles will give nonsensical results.
 
Right, I'm getting there, thank you.
I've finished this ( see pic ) and I actually don't need that angle. I thought it might have physical significance but it isn't interesting.
 

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