Hyperbolic Triangles: Deriving Relationships Algebraically or Geometrically

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter electricspit
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Hyperbolic Triangles
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving relationships involving hyperbolic functions in the context of special relativity, specifically focusing on transformations between inertial frames. Participants explore both algebraic and geometric approaches to understand these relationships as presented in Landau and Lifshitz's work.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation involving the transformation equations between two inertial frames and expresses confusion about the hyperbolic relationships derived from these equations.
  • The participant notes that the relationships for hyperbolic sine and cosine resemble those from regular trigonometry but questions how to derive them geometrically or algebraically.
  • Another participant suggests consulting the Wikipedia page on hyperbolic functions for additional information.
  • A later post reiterates the hyperbolic relationships and attempts to clarify them using a comparison with circular functions, although the participant expresses fatigue and uncertainty about their presentation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation methods, and there is uncertainty regarding the clarity of the relationships discussed. Multiple approaches and interpretations are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the relationships and the dependence on definitions of hyperbolic functions. The mathematical steps leading to the hyperbolic identities are not fully resolved.

electricspit
Messages
66
Reaction score
4
Hello, I'm going through Landau and Lifshitz "The Classical Theory of Fields" this summer with a friend and in section 4 I've come to a bit of a math problem.

Assume you have an inertial frame K' moving at speed V relative to an inertial frame K in the x-direction. In order for invariant intervals we require:

<br /> (ct)^2 - x^2 = (ct&#039;)^2 - (x&#039;)^2<br />

For this to be true:

<br /> x = x&#039;\cosh{\Psi}+ct&#039;\sinh{\Psi}<br />
<br /> ct=x&#039;\sinh{\Psi}+ct&#039;\cosh{\Psi}<br />

Where \Psi is the angle of rotation in the xt plane. Which makes sense. Now if we just look at the origin of the K&#039; frame moving these can be reduced to:

<br /> x=ct&#039;\sinh{\Psi}<br />
<br /> ct=ct&#039;\cosh{\Psi}<br />

and dividing the equations yields:

<br /> \tanh{\Psi}=\frac{x}{ct}<br />

But the speed V is given by V=\frac{x}{t} so:

<br /> \tanh{\Psi}=\frac{V}{c}<br />

The next part is what is a bit confusing. If this were regular trigonometry to find both \sin{\Psi} and \cos{\Psi} would just require the construction of a triangle. In this case however, they end up with very, very similar results except where the hypoteneuse would be they end up with something like this:

<br /> \sinh{\Psi}=\frac{\frac{V}{c}}{\sqrt{1-({\frac{V}{c}})^2}}<br />
<br /> \cosh{\Psi}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-({\frac{V}{c}})^2}}<br />

If anyone can point me in the right direction of deriving these relationships either algebraically or using geometry that would be extremely helpful!
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
electricspit said:
Hello, I'm going through Landau and Lifshitz "The Classical Theory of Fields" this summer with a friend and in section 4 I've come to a bit of a math problem.

Assume you have an inertial frame K&#039; moving at speed V relative to an inertial frame K in the x-direction. In order for invariant intervals we require:

<br /> (ct)^2 - x^2 = (ct&#039;)^2 - (x&#039;)^2<br />

For this to be true:

<br /> x = x&#039;\cosh{\Psi}+ct&#039;\sinh{\Psi}<br />
<br /> ct=x&#039;\sinh{\Psi}+ct&#039;\cosh{\Psi}<br />

Where \Psi is the angle of rotation in the xt plane. Which makes sense. Now if we just look at the origin of the K&#039; frame moving these can be reduced to:

<br /> x=ct&#039;\sinh{\Psi}<br />
<br /> ct=ct&#039;\cosh{\Psi}<br />

and dividing the equations yields:

<br /> \tanh{\Psi}=\frac{x}{ct}<br />

But the speed V is given by V=\frac{x}{t} so:

<br /> \tanh{\Psi}=\frac{V}{c}<br />

The next part is what is a bit confusing. If this were regular trigonometry to find both \sin{\Psi} and \cos{\Psi} would just require the construction of a triangle. In this case however, they end up with very, very similar results except where the hypoteneuse would be they end up with something like this:

<br /> \sinh{\Psi}=\frac{\frac{V}{c}}{\sqrt{1-{\frac{V}{c}}^2}}<br />
<br /> \cosh{\Psi}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-{\frac{V}{c}}^2}}<br />

If anyone can point me in the right direction of deriving these relationships either algebraically or using geometry that would be extremely helpful!

\sinh{\Psi}=\frac{\tanh{\Psi}}{\sqrt{1-\tanh^2{\Psi}}}
\cosh{\Psi}=\frac{1}{\sqrt{1-\tanh^2{\Psi}}}
 
Okay hmm, assuming the Wikipedia section on "Comparison with circular functions" is correct then this is what I make of it all:

http://imgur.com/4eL9du1

Sorry for the mess, I've been working all day and am too tired to be perfect.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
7K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 75 ·
3
Replies
75
Views
7K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K