What is the explanation for the 4m mass going down in a double Atwood machine?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a double Atwood machine involving various masses, specifically a 4m mass on one side and other masses (m and 3m) on the opposite side. The original poster is puzzled about why the 4m mass descends when the 3m mass moves down, despite the apparent equality of forces.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the dynamics of the system and the role of the center of mass. Some participants suggest that the movement of the 4m mass is necessary to maintain the center of mass position.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the implications of Newton's laws and the concept of center of mass in the context of the Atwood machine. There is a recognition of the need for the 4m mass to move in response to the movements of the other masses, but no explicit consensus has been reached regarding additional forces or explanations.

Contextual Notes

There are references to Lagrange equations and the dynamics of forces, but the original poster expresses uncertainty about the underlying reasons for the observed behavior of the masses.

player1_1_1
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Homework Statement


I have a double Atwood machine; on left side there is a heavy thing which weight 4m, on right side there is another circle (this circle which go around in atwood machine) and on left there is heavy thing which weight m, on right - mass which weight 3m. Now the 3m thing starts to go down, m thing goes up. Why the 4m mass goes down, while the mass on both sides are the same mass?
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9270/testttti.jpg

Homework Equations


I got this result from Lagrange equations

The Attempt at a Solution


I tried to research how the forces in lines and masses are existing, but I couldn't find any soluton for this.. why this 4m mass is going down? thanks for answer!
 
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player1_1_1 said:
.. why this 4m mass is going down?

Hi player1_1_1! :smile:

If the 4m didn't move, then the centre of mass would go down.

So the 4m must go down to keep the centre of mass where it should be. :wink:

(you'll probably find that 4a + b + 3c is a separable variable)
 
Thanks for answer!
does it have any explanation why centre of mass must be in same location? maybe some additional forces which force this 4m thing to go down?
 
Newton's first law (and zero net external force) ? :wink:

(Imagine you're hanging from the right-hand disc, instead of the masses, and you put your arms "above" your head … would you expect the left-hand mass to stay where it is?)
 
now i understand this, thanks!
 

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