What is the Path of Light through Strong Gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the path of light in the presence of strong gravitational fields, exploring how light behaves in a curved space-time framework. Participants use analogies, such as a bowling ball on a mattress, to conceptualize the bending of light around massive objects, while also addressing the limitations of these analogies in accurately representing the phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that light travels in a straight line, questioning how it navigates a "gap" in a bent space-time scenario.
  • Another participant argues that light's path is affected by massive objects, comparing it to a marble rolling near a bowling ball on a mattress.
  • Concerns are raised about the effectiveness of the bowling ball analogy, with one participant suggesting it creates a misleading mental image of a "virtual gap" in space.
  • Participants discuss the concept of light bending near massive objects, with some asserting that light's path appears non-linear from certain reference frames.
  • There is a proposal that the bending of light can be calculated based on the mass of the object and the distance from it.
  • One participant expresses difficulty in visualizing how light travels in curved space, prompting a rephrasing of their question regarding light's behavior in a hypothetical curved space without a massive body.
  • Another participant emphasizes that light cannot simply "jump" out of space and back into it, reinforcing the idea that light's path is constrained by the geometry of space-time.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of visual analogies, with a participant suggesting that the analogy of a bowling ball on a mattress may be more confusing than helpful.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of analogies used to describe light's behavior in curved space. There is no consensus on the best way to visualize or conceptualize the bending of light in strong gravitational fields, and multiple competing interpretations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of 2D and 3D analogies in representing the complexities of 4D space-time. The discussion highlights the challenges in accurately visualizing gravitational effects on light's path.

  • #31
Grendizer said:
Thanks for the respond @DaleSpam.

I guess I have to understand the problem from the general relativity prospective. Sucks. I thought I can understand it logically without needing to go into the depth and complex equations (at least for me sounds complex).

This is one of those things if your not expert at the topic, you simply won't get it. :(

I don't agree. Sure, you need to know the equations to actually do GR and solve problems, but I don't feel you need to know the math to grasp the basics. GR is, at its core, a theory of geometry, and it takes only a little imagination to extend the more basic concepts of geometry to GR. But you have to have some understanding of those basic geometry concepts, many of which weren't taught to you in high school or college unless you specifically took advanced math courses.
 
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  • #32
@Drakkith

Wow, that is really interesting! I have to read you comment few times so I understand the concept, lol. At least you showed me which door to walk through. You showed me which concepts are involved to understand my question. That's kool man, Thanks!
 
  • #33
Drakkith said:
I don't agree. Sure, you need to know the equations to actually do GR and solve problems, but I don't feel you need to know the math to grasp the basics. GR is, at its core, a theory of geometry, and it takes only a little imagination to extend the more basic concepts of geometry to GR. But you have to have some understanding of those basic geometry concepts, many of which weren't taught to you in high school or college unless you specifically took advanced math courses.

I have a diploma in Robotics and Automation. I love my job; a lot of real life problem solving including design and automating processes using varies programming solutions. However, sometimes I regret not studying Physics. I always been fascinated by it! It been a while since I did physics and "not everyday" mathematics. In my free time, I try to review what I've learned and want to learn new things about physics and math. Hopefully, I'll catch up soon. :)
 
  • #34
Grendizer said:
I have a diploma in Robotics and Automation. I love my job; a lot of real life problem solving including design and automating processes using varies programming solutions. However, sometimes I regret not studying Physics. I always been fascinated by it! It been a while since I did physics and "not everyday" mathematics. In my free time, I try to review what I've learned and want to learn new things about physics and math. Hopefully, I'll catch up soon. :)

Never regret doing something that has tangible benefits like robotics and automation. Heck, if anything we need MORE engineers and people like yourself. Engineers are who solve real world problems and can be some of the most creative people in the world. A lot of our current unsolved problems in physics is the result of the lack of data, not a lack of brainpower. We are effectively waiting for technology to catch up to theory to get more data to show us which way to go.
 
  • #35
Grendizer said:
My problem is visualizing how space is curved at gravity and how the light travel in this curvature?
You have to understand the concept of geodesics on curved surfaces. The lower picture in the below link gives you an approximate idea:

http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb..._and_general_relativity/curved_spacetime.html

However, note that this purely spatial curvature just explains half of the light bending. To explain the full amount you have to include the time dimension, and consider space-time curvature. But this gets very hard to visualize.
 
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  • #36
Drakkith said:
Never regret doing something that has tangible benefits like robotics and automation. Heck, if anything we need MORE engineers and people like yourself. Engineers are who solve real world problems and can be some of the most creative people in the world. A lot of our current unsolved problems in physics is the result of the lack of data, not a lack of brainpower. We are effectively waiting for technology to catch up to theory to get more data to show us which way to go.

:) Thanks man. And I agree, technology will help us to understand our theories! :)
 

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