What is the phase margin and gain margin for this circuit?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on understanding phase margin and gain margin in control systems, specifically in relation to a circuit's stability. The phase margin is defined as the amount of phase lag required to reach -180 degrees at the 0 dB gain frequency. Participants noted that even at a 180-degree phase shift, the gain can still be greater than 0 dB, leading to confusion about the implications for gain margin and phase margin, particularly when gain margin is negative.

PREREQUISITES
  • Control system stability concepts
  • Bode plot interpretation
  • Phase margin and gain margin definitions
  • Frequency response analysis
NEXT STEPS
  • Study Bode plot techniques for visualizing phase and gain margins
  • Learn about Nyquist stability criteria
  • Explore the implications of negative gain margin on system stability
  • Review control system design methods to improve phase margin
USEFUL FOR

Electrical engineers, control system designers, and students preparing for exams in control theory will benefit from this discussion.

Cocoleia
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Homework Statement


upload_2018-4-14_15-57-58.png

The Attempt at a Solution


I am having trouble visualizing this. So I know that the phase margin is how much phase lag it would take to make -180 phase at the 0 dB gain frequency. I am just having trouble placing this on the plot. It isn't a homework question I am preparing for an exam. I would think the answer is 45 degrees ?
 

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Cocoleia said:

Homework Statement


View attachment 224055

The Attempt at a Solution


I am having trouble visualizing this. So I know that the phase margin is how much phase lag it would take to make -180 phase at the 0 dB gain frequency. I am just having trouble placing this on the plot. It isn't a homework question I am preparing for an exam. I would think the answer is 45 degrees ?
Notice that at 180 deg phase shift the gain is still > 0dB!
 
rude man said:
Notice that at 180 deg phase shift the gain is still > 0dB!
I'm not sure what I am supposed to looking at to figure this out then
 
If gain margin is negative, so must phase margin be, making what your answer?
 
rude man said:
If gain margin is negative, so must phase margin be, making what your answer?
So then my answer would be none of the above so it can be negative ?
 
Cocoleia said:
So then my answer would be none of the above so it can be negative ?

That's my vote.
 

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