What is the process of invention?

In summary, the person does not have any math or testing behind their idea, but still thinks it is better than everything else that has been tried. They are paranoid of the media and think that it will ruin their life. They are also suspicious of the nuclear fusion research community and think that they are out of ideas. They suggest patenting the idea.
  • #36
zoobyshoe said:
He says:

So clearly this thread was not about helping him with his research since his schematics aren't even done yet. The purpose of this thread is how to protect his research from being stolen. Arguing otherwise is just dishonest.
 
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  • #37
micromass said:
So clearly this thread was not about helping him with his research since his schematics aren't even done yet. The purpose of this thread is how to protect his research from being stolen. Arguing otherwise is just dishonest.
That was certainly his main concern. How do you protect an innovative idea? Nothing wrong with that question.
 
  • #38
russ_watters said:
Not sure if that is a joke or an actual article, but if it exists, I'd like to read it...

Years ago, the Reader's Digest had a series "I am Joe's Heart", "I Am Joe's Liver", "I am Joe's Stomach", etc. These were a few page overview of what various organs were, where they were, ehat they did, etc.
 
  • #39
zoobyshoe said:
That was certainly his main concern. How do you protect an innovative idea? Nothing wrong with that question.

Right. And nothing wrong with our responses that he shouldn't be worrying about that for now.
 
  • #40
micromass said:
Right. And nothing wrong with our responses that he shouldn't be worrying about that for now.
Why shouldn't he? Whatever he's thinking about today, tomorrow he might actually come up with some obviously good idea about something.
 
  • #41
micromass said:
Right. And nothing wrong with our responses that he shouldn't be worrying about that for now.
He got the correct response in post #2, right off the bat, IMHO; "You can patent it".

I'm an inventive person, also. And that's my pat answer to these types of questions.
 
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  • #42
zoobyshoe said:
Why shouldn't he? Whatever he's thinking about today, tomorrow he might actually come up with some obviously good idea about something.

I don't know how you think science research works. He's not going to come up with a good idea about fusion in one day without doing a lot more studying.
I find your attitude very insulting towards experts who have been struggling with this matter for years. And you think a 15 year old kid can just "solve fusion" in a day? Be serious please...
 
  • #43
micromass said:
I don't know how you think science research works. He's not going to come up with a good idea about fusion in one day without doing a lot more studying.
I find your attitude very insulting towards experts who have been struggling with this matter for years. And you think a 15 year old kid can just "solve fusion" in a day? Be serious please...
The odds against him having "solved fusion" are high. However, as I said, he might have a good idea about something tomorrow, or at some point in the future, at which point he would want to take steps to protect it.
 
  • #44
zoobyshoe said:
The odds against him having "solved fusion" are high.

Why?
 
  • #45
micromass said:
Why?
Exactly why you think they are. That doesn't translate to "He's a layman, therefore he is wrong," however.
 
  • #46
zoobyshoe said:
Exactly why you think they are. That doesn't translate to "He's a layman, therefore he is wrong," however.

Thank you very much, then we are in agreement.
 
  • #47
zoobyshoe said:
I don't see any harm whatever in him asking people here to look at it even at this one-day-old stage because it shows, to me at least, he doesn't want to linger on it if it turns out to be easily shown to be in error. In other words, he is trying to do exactly what several are accusing him of not doing: consulting.
It isn't just about consulting (education first!) and the harm in looking at and evaluating the idea is that it validates the approach he's taking. That approach is fundamentally flawed and that's part of the reason we don't allow such discussions on PF.
 
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  • #48
Muon catalyzed fusion has been considered in a variety of environments, including high altitude and in space. The muon flux is too low.
Arubi Bushlee said:
*edit* nevermind muon flux too low. :C
Yep

http://cosmic.lbl.gov/SnowMass/main.html

https://cds.cern.ch/record/427778/files/0002052.pdf

http://www-rccn.icrr.u-tokyo.ac.jp/rccnws04/proceedings/081-090.pdf

From the link to muon page at Hyperphysics:
1 muon per square centimeter per minute at sea level. From the other links, it seems to be an increase with altitude, but not more than a couple of orders of magnitude at say 15000 ft (4.6 km)
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/particles/muonatm.htmlOne has to do the math and the physics, and if that works out, the engineering.
 
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  • #49
I have no idea if his invention is good. Probably not for the reasons micromass but also zoobyshoe agree with.
But hey, he's a 15 years old boy who is daydreaming- everyone at his age thinks he can save the planet. It seems according to his post that he knows more about Physics than most of his peers. One day he may become a scientist. He asks legitimate questions (is my idea correct? And how does one protect an invention?). He repeatedly says he's not sure about the idea and by posting on PF he's trying to consult experts. This is probably all he can do at his age.
I see no point in yelling at him using multiple exclamation marks and scolding him in "who do you think you are?!" style.
Answering this boy in a normal manner ( eg. I've read your description and there is this problem-as @Astronuc did ) does not mean "disrespecting experts".
I don't know why this innocent thread got so personal and negative.
 
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  • #50
Sophia said:
I have no idea if his invention is good. Probably not for the reasons micromass but also zoobyshoe agree with.
But hey, he's a 15 years old boy who is daydreaming- everyone at his age thinks he can save the planet. It seems according to his post that he knows more about Physics than most of his peers. One day he may become a scientist. He asks legitimate questions (is my idea correct? And how does one protect an invention?). He repeatedly says he's not sure about the idea and by posting on PF he's trying to consult experts. This is probably all he can do at his age.
I see no point in yelling at him using multiple exclamation marks and scolding him in "who do you think you are?!" style.
Answering this boy in a normal manner ( eg. I've read your description and there is this problem-as @Astronuc did ) does not mean "disrespecting experts".
I don't know why this innocent thread got so personal and negative.

Whenever a thread like this comes up, there are always two different responses. One side is encouraging him to ask more scientific questions. The other side is telling him to drop the attitude, to stop daydreaming and actually do science the way everybody does it. I believe both sides are necessary for him to hear.
 
  • #51
micromass said:
Whenever a thread like this comes up, there are always two different responses. One side is encouraging him to ask more scientific questions. The other side is telling him to drop the attitude, to stop daydreaming and actually do science the way everybody does it. I believe both sides are necessary for him to hear.
Of course be needs to hear that he needs to study, get a degree and become a proper scientist. In this I fully agree with you. All I was objecting to was the way it was presented.

When I was 14-15 I wanted to work at NASA. I spent days trying to find the patterns in distances, size, and other properties between the planets. I wanted to discover position and characteristics of the 10th planet. A year later, when I got to high school, I discovered how stupid I actually am and that I will never be able to solve anything more difficult than primary school math problems. The life itself showed me the truth.
I think that OP will discover how things are on his own, too.
 
  • #52
Arubi Bushlee said:
*edit* nevermind muon flux too low. :C
It would not work even with much higher muon flux.

Accelerating deuterium to 98% the speed of light needs 8 GeV per atom, that is a factor of >1000 (edit: fixed numbers) more than fusion releases. No accelerator and neutron energy capture mechanism is even close to be efficient enough to counter that.

The muons have a large spectrum in speed, direction and energy, most of your muons won't be at rest relative to deuterium.

Making a tube narrower doesn't work at those speeds, your muons and deuterium molecules would just bump into the wall, go through or produce showers of more particles.Those are three (four if you include muon flux) show-stoppers I noted before even finishing reading your post, and I am not a fusion expert. That is the true value of education: you can discard ideas that do not work quickly, and spend time on those that have a chance.
 
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  • #53
mfb said:
Accelerating deuterium to 98% the speed of light needs 8 GeV per molecule, that is a factor of ~500 more than fusion releases.
That's a doozy of a show stopper. The OP needs to study the physics behind the process. Proposing to accelerate each deuteron to ~ 8 GeV is way more than can be generated from a fusion reaction, which is ~3.27 to 4 MeV, which is ~1.6 to 2 MeV per deuteron, just won't work.

Also, the OP can read up on μ-catalyzed d,d-fusion.
 
  • #54
What I've learned so far after a week of activity:

PF is where social values and logic collide
 
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  • #55
twiz_ said:
What I've learned so far after a week of activity:

PF is where social values and logic collide

A lot of the, I guess you could say, harshness, comes from the fact that there are all too many people who come to PF who have not attempted to educate themselves and who are convinced they are the next Einstien [sic]. So, while we certainly have some people who are very encouraging, at the same time, there's a necessity as well for people who can be blunt and tell the posters that they need to do their research before speaking of grand ideas. I'm not talking in particular about this OP, because they don't seem like a crackpot. I'm just speaking in general terms.
 
  • #56
Thread locked pending moderation.
 
  • #57
After reading this thread, it should have been locked over 2 pages ago.
 

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