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Can you restate that rule? We're now at post #61, so this was 34 posts back.timmeister37 said:
What is the proper grammar for my example sentence?
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sysprog
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The right rule is to distinguish correctly between subject and object when deciding whether to say 'she' or 'her', or 'I' or 'me' (not that you didn't already know that, Sir).Mark44 said:
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I don't see how it's relevant at all. Here are two examples using her:timmeister37 said:
1. Fred gave her a bouquet. -- Direct object "bouquet," indirect object "her."
2. For the position of director, I nominate her. -- Direct object, "her."
What's important is to distinguish between whether the pronoun is a subject or an object (either direct object or indirect). It's the difference between "Who is calling?" and "To whom did you wish to speak?"
In the first, "who" is the subject; in the second "you" is the subject and "whom" is the indirect object.
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I was asking @timmeister37 to state his rule -- I didn't want to have to trawl back through a bunch of posts.sysprog said:
sysprog
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The transitivity of 'gave' renders problematic the determination of which object is direct and which indirect, but it's not problematic for determination of subject vis-a-vis object . . .
timmeister37
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The posts are all numbered. It is a long rule. It is on the second page.Mark44 said:
Mark44, you already agreed with the rule upthread. I am curious as to sysprog's opinion.
timmeister37
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I changed my mind.Mark44 said:
I will restate it, Mark44. It will take several minutes though
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At this point of the discussion I feel I should caution against confusing the object with a predicate nominative.
From the Daily Grammar, "A predicate nominative or predicate noun completes a linking verb and renames the subject. It is a complement or completer because it completes the verb (predicate)."
Example: (Pointing at a person in a photo) "In this photo my mother is she, do you remember her?" "She" for predicate nominative, "her" for direct object.
From the Daily Grammar, "A predicate nominative or predicate noun completes a linking verb and renames the subject. It is a complement or completer because it completes the verb (predicate)."
Example: (Pointing at a person in a photo) "In this photo my mother is she, do you remember her?" "She" for predicate nominative, "her" for direct object.
timmeister37
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The following is my rule in post #27:
As i recall, the rule for which pronoun case to use has to do with the verb form in the sentence. As i recall, if the sentence uses a linking verb to link the predicate pronoun back to the subject of the sentence, then the predicate pronoun should be the subjective case (she). If the sentence does not use a linking verb to link the predicate pronoun back to the subject of the sentence, then the predicate pronoun should be the objective case (her). The only linking verb that matters for this rule is the linking verb that separates the subject from the predicate in the sentence, not any other linking verb in this sentence.
As i recall, the rule for which pronoun case to use has to do with the verb form in the sentence. As i recall, if the sentence uses a linking verb to link the predicate pronoun back to the subject of the sentence, then the predicate pronoun should be the subjective case (she). If the sentence does not use a linking verb to link the predicate pronoun back to the subject of the sentence, then the predicate pronoun should be the objective case (her). The only linking verb that matters for this rule is the linking verb that separates the subject from the predicate in the sentence, not any other linking verb in this sentence.
sysprog
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I would like to see sentential examples.timmeister37 said:
timmeister37
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timmeister37 said:
I think i might have found a flaw in my rule in post #27. My post #27 says the following: If the sentence does not use a linking verb to link the predicate pronoun back to the subject of the sentence, then the predicate pronoun should be the objective case (her).
Consider the following sentence: I am smarter than she.
I know that "I am smarter than she" is correct grammar.
Is "am smarter" a linking verb?
timmeister37
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There is an example in my post #71.sysprog said:
sysprog
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I would say 'I am taller than she is' (2 instances of the 'esse' (to be) verb) -- in my view, your sentence does not include a 'linking' verb, but I don't use that terminology . . .timmeister37 said:
Evo
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This isn't the homework forum. Thread closed pending deletion.
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I'm almost certain this isn't a homework question.Evo said:
Evo
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It's definitely "homework like" and if it's this much like homework, it goes in homework, that's always been our rule. The information here would be of benefit to any student with similar school work.Mark44 said:
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I think this is correct. The only linking verb (this is terminology I don't recall from when I was learning grammar) is "to be," in its various conjugations, tenses, and moods. I won't swear to this, though,.timmeister37 said:
No, just "am." Here the adjective "smarter" modifies the subject, "I."timmeister37 said:
"I am taller than she" is also correct. The final "is" is implied.sysprog said:
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No, not homework-like. I've been involved with the thread since the beginning. The OP is just curious about how pronouns work in English.Evo said:
Aside from not being homework, we don't have a Homework section devoted to English grammar.
Please leave the thread open...
sysprog
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Well, thanks for re-opening the thread, and for not deleting it -- I understand that's it's not really physics, but I for one think that it's interesting.
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There's no requirement that things in general discussion have to be any STEM topicssysprog said:
Evo
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But if it's presented like the OP's first post, it would be considered homework. Also, the OP's attitude is inappropriate.phinds said:
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Again I feel I must be missing what the fuss is about.
The word in question is the object of a preposition. What else is required??
The word in question is the object of a preposition. What else is required??
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I think we should mention it once if we are offended and then stop communicating if it continues. Not a big deal...sort of self correcting.
And one can certainly be offended by bad treatment of others... and mention same.
And one can certainly be offended by bad treatment of others... and mention same.
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I disagree. It is inappropriate to insult another member and to CONTINUE to do it is totally unacceptable. We should report that, not ignore it.hutchphd said:
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This occurred some 50 or 60 posts back, and was pointed out to the OP, who seems to have mended his ways.sysprog said:
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phinds said:
I think it is better left to the aggrieved party at that point. If they are not sufficiently offended it seems a little bit of a reach to intervene. To each his own.
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OCR
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Lol, that's some fancy formatting. . . but I've never seen the "# # \cdots # #" used before.
It does seem to work, though. . . .
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Lol, that's some fancy formatting. . . but I've never seen the "# # \cdots # #" used before.
It does seem to work, though. . . .
sysprog said:
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Since this is rumbling on, I wouldn't worry about me.
timmeister37
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As i said upthread, about ten years ago, i researched this issue in depth. I found an excellent grammar textbook at my local public library. The English grammar textbook i found was John E. Warriner's textbook English Grammar and Composition. With Warriner's textbook English Grammar and Composition, the rules for when one must use the subjective case and when one must use the objective case were crystal clear, and it made so much sense! One thing i remember about the rule that Warriner stated was that i had to know whether or not a verb was intransitive verb or a transitive verb to know whether or not i should use the subjective case or the objective case. I am going to either buy Warriner's textbook or get it on interlibrary loan.
My purpose on this thread is to get a deep understanding of the rules as to which pronoun case to use. I will share this information with everyone on the thread who wants to know as soon as i acquire it.
Although i do think that my rule on post #27 is on the right track, I don't think the rule i posted on post #27 is 100% complete to give one the correct pronoun case 100 % of the time.
P.S. no, this is not a homework question. I don't attend any school. I am on OTR truck driver.
My purpose on this thread is to get a deep understanding of the rules as to which pronoun case to use. I will share this information with everyone on the thread who wants to know as soon as i acquire it.
Although i do think that my rule on post #27 is on the right track, I don't think the rule i posted on post #27 is 100% complete to give one the correct pronoun case 100 % of the time.
P.S. no, this is not a homework question. I don't attend any school. I am on OTR truck driver.