What is the Purpose of the Geodesic Equation in General Relativity?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the purpose and interpretation of the geodesic equation in general relativity. Participants explore the nature of the equation, the variables involved, and the process of solving it, touching on both theoretical and practical aspects of geodesics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions what exactly is being solved in the geodesic equation, suggesting it resembles the Euler-Lagrange equations where the focus may be on deriving equations of motion rather than solving for specific variables.
  • Another participant clarifies that the solution involves the function ##x^{\mu}(s)##, which describes a geodesic worldline, and emphasizes the need for two initial conditions due to the second-order nature of the differential equation.
  • Some participants note that ##s## can be any affine parameter, not just proper time, particularly in the context of light-like geodesics.
  • Concerns are raised about differentiating the ##x^{\mu}## functions when their values are initially unknown, leading to discussions about the nature of coupled differential equations and the necessity of solving them together.
  • One participant suggests that solving such systems may involve educated guesses about the functions involved, while another mentions the potential use of first integrals based on symmetries to simplify the equations.
  • References to external articles are made, with some participants asserting that the examples provided may not be applicable to the specific metric being discussed by the original poster.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the geodesic equation and its application, with no consensus reached on the best approach to solving it or the implications of the variables involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of coupled differential equations and the role of initial conditions, as well as the potential for first integrals to aid in solving the equations. The discussion also reflects a variety of interpretations regarding the nature of the geodesic equation and its parameters.

space-time
Messages
218
Reaction score
4
I started studying the geodesic equation:

2xμ/∂s2 = - Γμab(∂xa/∂s)(∂xb/∂s)

where the term s is proper time according to the wiki(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geodesics_in_general_relativity).
The 2nd derivative on the left side of the equation is the acceleration in the xμ direction.

Now my question is:

When I solve the geodesic equation, what exactly am I trying to solve for? Am I solving for s (or rather am I supposed to plug in information into the equation in order to derive s)? If not s, then what exactly am I solving for? If you already have your Christoffel symbols derived, then you should have already long had your xμ functions derived (which is why I don't think you are solving for xμ).

To be honest, this equation seems more to me like the Euler - Lagrange equations in the sense that, the main purpose doesn't seem to be to solve the equation, but more so to plug in known information in order to derive equations of motion.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
space-time said:
When I solve the geodesic equation, what exactly am I trying to solve for?

The function ##x^{\mu} (s)## that describes a geodesic worldline. Since it's a second order differential equation, you will need to specify two initial conditions in order to obtain a unique solution--usually these are ##x^{\mu}## and ##dx^{\mu} / ds## at ##s = 0##.

space-time said:
If you already have your Christoffel symbols derived, then you should have already long had your xμ functions derived

No. The Christoffel symbols are derivatives of the metric, not of ##x^{\mu}##. The coordinates ##x^{\mu}## here are four functions of the parameter ##s##; they tell you the coordinates of some object whose worldline you want to describe at each value of ##s##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bcrowell
To add to what Peter already said, I think it should be pointed out that ##s## may be any affine parameter, not necessarily the proper time (although it is an obvious choice for time-like geodesics). For example, for light-like geodesics, the geodesic equations look exactly the same, but ##s## can no longer be identified with (a multiple of) the proper time, since the length of light-like geodesics is zero.
 
PeterDonis said:
The function ##x^{\mu} (s)## that describes a geodesic worldline. Since it's a second order differential equation, you will need to specify two initial conditions in order to obtain a unique solution--usually these are ##x^{\mu}## and ##dx^{\mu} / ds## at ##s = 0##.
No. The Christoffel symbols are derivatives of the metric, not of ##x^{\mu}##. The coordinates ##x^{\mu}## here are four functions of the parameter ##s##; they tell you the coordinates of some object whose worldline you want to describe at each value of ##s##.

I see. Well then here is a question:

The right side of the equation invokes Einstein's summation convention where the derivatives of the ##x^{\mu}## functions (with respect to s) are taken multiple times for all values of μ. Now, if I don't know what ##x^{\mu}## is from the beginning, then how am I supposed to differentiate functions like x1 or x2 with respect to s? Here's an example of what I mean:

The Morris Thorne wormhole metric has Christoffel symbols Γμab as follows:Γ122 and Γ133 are non zero. These are the only non-zero Christoffel symbols where μ= 1.

As a result of this, when I set μ= 1 (which means I am solving for x1) in the geodesic equation, the equation turns out to look like this:

2x1/∂s = [- Γ122 * (∂x2/∂s) * (∂x2/∂s) ] + [- Γ133 * (∂x3/∂s) * (∂x3/∂s) ]

(That is what the summation on the right of the equation ends up being).

As you can see, the summation contains derivatives of x2 and x3 despite the fact that I'm solving for x1. If I don't know any of the ##x^{\mu}## terms to begin with, then how am I supposed to take said derivatives of x2 and x3?
 
space-time said:
As you can see, the summation contains derivatives of x2 and x3 despite the fact that I'm solving for x1.
Why do you think this is a problem? It is a set of coupled differential equations which have to be solved together.
 
space-time said:
Now, if I don't know what ##x^{\mu}## is from the beginning, then how am I supposed to differentiate functions like x1 or x2 with respect to s?

That's what makes solving systems of coupled differential equations so much fun. You have to make an educated guess as to what all the functions ##x^\mu(s)## might look like, plug these into the equations, see if they work, adjust and try again if it doesn't.
 
Nugatory said:
That's what makes solving systems of coupled differential equations so much fun. You have to make an educated guess as to what all the functions ##x^\mu(s)## might look like, plug these into the equations, see if they work, adjust and try again if it doesn't.
This sounds a bit like solving coupled differential equations is based on guesswork. I think it should be mentioned that there will often be first integrals based on symmetries which may often be used to integrate some of the equations and by using the result the other equations are simplified. Of course, this is not particular to relativity, but appears already in classical mechanics, eg, a charged particle moving in a constant magnetic field.
 
space-time said:
When I solve the geodesic equation, what exactly am I trying to solve for?

Look at the derivation of equation (3) in this article. It neglects phi and theta, but the geodesic equations are written in full in terms of t and r. The rest of the article is fundamentally useful too, but goes beyond your actual question.
 
m4r35n357 said:
Look at the derivation of equation (3) in this article. It neglects phi and theta, but the geodesic equations are written in full in terms of t and r. The rest of the article is fundamentally useful too, but goes beyond your actual question.
The article you link to is dealing with the Schwarzschild metric. This is not applicable to the metric which the OP is studying.
 
  • #10
Orodruin said:
The article you link to is dealing with the Schwarzschild metric. This is not applicable to the metric which the OP is studying.

The OP did not quote a metric, it was a general question regarding the meaning of the geodesic equation. I maintain that I have answered the OP correctly with an illustrative example.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K