What is the reality of finding a perfect partner?

[honestrosewater]

Congrats to you and your family, Astronuc. That sounds great.

Yeah, I guess communication might just sum things up the best. Most of my concerns are about people just not being upfront and not saying what's on their mind (sex is maybe just the thing that a lot of people seem to have the hardest time talking about). So I guess my advice to anyone who cares will be to not assume anything; if they want to know, just ask. I won't bite (without their permission). Sound good?

 

[Hurkyl]

I think you're cute too though. ... Um, that wasn't all aimed at you either.

(Ok, I figured out what you meant, but still! *sniff*)

Why do I seem cute? Anything in particular that you're aware of?

*shrug* I don't really know. It's not always easy to tell! Figuring out who's cute is my subconscious's job!

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I would say that the entire PF Sisterhood which includes honestrosewater display a certain charm, playfulness and a nice witty humor that personally I find attractive. I also think a dash of insecurity/doubt makes ppl seem a little more real and in your case cute.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I also think a dash of insecurity/doubt makes ppl seem a little more real and in your case cute.

I agree. I sometimes get a little irritated with women though when they are down on themselves. Mostly when I compliment them and they blow it off like I don't really mean it or they don't think they deserve it. But then I see women that think they are god's gift and I realize that I definitely do not want a woman like that.

 

[Hurkyl]

I would say that the entire PF Sisterhood which includes honestrosewater display a certain charm, playfulness and a nice witty humor that personally I find attractive. I also think a dash of insecurity/doubt makes ppl seem a little more real and in your case cute.

Well, for me, it's nowhere near so clear cut. Sure, Monique is absolutely adorable! But I don't find, say, Evo attractive nor cute. (No offense!) And Gale is cute, I suppose, but I don't find her attractive.

And I don't think I ever considered honestrosewater cute & attractive until after this thread.

 

[Gale]

gosh hurkyl I'm flattered... I'm not in the sisterhood though, i think there's an age limit that I'm not old enough for.. speaking which I'm a bit young for you anyway heh.

 

[Hurkyl]

speaking which I'm a bit young for you anyway heh.

Which is probably why there isn't any attraction.

(I used you, Evo, and Monique as examples, because you three are the only girls on here that sprung to mind at the time)

 

[Moonbear]

(I used you, Evo, and Monique as examples, because you three are the only girls on here that sprung to mind at the time)

You don't find Evo cute or attractive, but you don't even think of me. It's probably an age thing too...if you know someone is closer to your age, they're probably more appealing than someone much older or younger, who just wouldn't be on your radar for being a potential date.

Well, since you're giving honest opinions, I guess I could be better off left out of your list of examples.

 

[Evo]

Well, for me, it's nowhere near so clear cut. Sure, Monique is absolutely adorable! But I don't find, say, Evo attractive nor cute. (No offense!)

Yeah, I've noticed you've always been mean to me, what's with that? I always liked your Alfred E Newman avatar.

 

[Hurkyl]

Well, since you're giving honest opinions, I guess I could be better off left out of your list of examples.

Yours was the next name I thought of -- but I already had one example of each type I wanted!

Yeah, I've noticed you've always been mean to me, what's with that?

I thought I was mean to everyone (except Monique)!

I always liked your Alfred E Newman avatar.

Is that him? Doesn't quite look like it. I picked it because it looks how I feel after some of the threads I get involved in!

 

[Evo]

Is that him? Doesn't quite look like it. I picked it because it looks how I feel after some of the threads I get involved in!

You forgot your old avatar? You lost it during one of the upgrades, it was the one before this one.

 

[Moonbear]

Yours was the next name I thought of -- but I already had one example of each type I wanted!

Oh, very diplomatic, indeed.

 

[Hurkyl]

You forgot your old avatar? You lost it during one of the upgrades, it was the one before this one.

Oh yes, I remember now! I do like the new one a lot better.

 

[Astronuc]

Yeah, I guess communication might just sum things up the best. Most of my concerns are about people just not being upfront and not saying what's on their mind (sex is maybe just the thing that a lot of people seem to have the hardest time talking about). So I guess my advice to anyone who cares will be to not assume anything; if they want to know, just ask. I won't bite (without their permission). Sound good?

Well communication and honesty. In a bilateral/reciprocal relationship, one has to be unafraid to express one's thoughts to the other, and one has to be willing to receive and consider the other's thoughts.

I was thinking (as usual) about the way men and women interact based on your last post - Sex seems to be a big problem for both men and women, probably because so many (most?) parents do not discuss it, and in many or most parents do not even discuss relationships (at least that's what I conclude based on comments from a lot friends and people I meet. IMO that's why we have so many self-help and how-to-do-it books, and Oprah, Dr. Phil, etc.

Sex is a pretty simple proposition. Certain parts of the body generate pleasurable feelings when subject to tactile stimulation, and certain part generate powerful feelings of ecstasy when stimulated. Ideally two partners communicate what they like or dislike and hopefully share some commonality. I think though, many couples put the cart before the horse, and for one partner the sex is more about personal pleasure (in which case the choice of partner is not important) than a shared spiritual experience.

Also, a friend told me not to long ago, that one could summarize the relationship between men and women as "men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love." I find that to be an abhorrent thought, and it is certainly does not reflect my values nor those of my parents. On the other hand, I have had several male and female friends concur with that view - which I find rather sad.

Perhaps I am just fortunate that I found the woman I did.

Besides being able to share my mind with her, she shares her mind with me. And another equally important part of our relationship is that she wants to be with me (as opposed to someone else), and she wants me to be with her. I suppose she was the first woman to meet all my basic criteria, and I had relationships where I wasn't sure.

I would add to what Greg said, and say that I adore the PF sisters. In addition to the certain charm, playfulness and a nice witty humor, the ladies possesses intelligence, thoughtfulness and intellectual curiosity. As I mentioned elsewhere, if I was not married, PF would be a good starting point for finding a potentially compatible mate (wife in my case).

 

[honestrosewater]

I agree. I sometimes get a little irritated with women though when they are down on themselves. Mostly when I compliment them and they blow it off like I don't really mean it or they don't think they deserve it. But then I see women that think they are god's gift and I realize that I definitely do not want a woman like that.

Do you say anything to them about it? I don't know how or why (probably for the reasons you mentioned), but I realized a few months ago that I had developed that habit of dismissing compliments from men. I didn't even really think much of it until someone said something. And now that I've been working on appreciating compliments, I probably give them more too.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Do you say anything to them about it? I don't know how or why (probably for the reasons you mentioned), but I realized a few months ago that I had developed that habit of dismissing compliments from men. I didn't even really think much of it until someone said something. And now that I've been working on appreciating compliments, I probably give them more too.

I try to. I used to tell one of my exs that she was beautiful all the time. She would always just roll her eyes at me and tell me that she looked terrible. Then one day she said to me that some guy at her work had complimented her that day, that he tends to do that, and how much she really likes it when she's out or at work and some one compliments her, almost as if she were hinting that I didn't do so. That really depressed me and after that I felt like an idiot when ever I thought to compliment her.

 

[JasonRox]

A lot of girls dismiss them sometimes, almost like they deserve it and/or it's their god given right to get them.

 

[honestrosewater]

And I don't think I ever considered honestrosewater cute & attractive until after this thread.

Ah, this is going to drive me crazy. I need to know what I did! C'mon, think! Think! This info could really come in handy.

So... how much does physical attraction contribute to cuteness for you guys? How important is it in a friendship/relationship? I'm not sure how to explain it myself. (I'll try for the truth, but they're just generalizations; there might be exceptions.) Some things are certainly pretty to look at, e.g. Michelangelo's David, but they're pretty to look at in the same way that, say, the sky, cars, whatever are pretty to look at -- there's no attraction involved. (Same goes for sound, smell, taste, touch.)
Until I know a person, I think I look at them the same way I look at anything else. It's as I get to know them that physical attraction (or repulsion) develops, and I just connect their looks with other things that I find attractive, like character, sense of humor, habits, and such. Does that make sense? I think it's actually true too. Of course, when someone you find attractive also manages to be what is naturally delightful to look at, hear, smell, taste, touch, well, that's even better. I think looking at bodies as means of communicating with brains is nice too.

 

[The_Professional]

I try to. I used to tell one of my exs that she was beautiful all the time. She would always just roll her eyes at me and tell me that she looked terrible. Then one day she said to me that some guy at her work had complimented her that day, that he tends to do that, and how much she really likes it when she's out or at work and some one compliments her, almost as if she were hinting that I didn't do so.

truthfully, it sounds to me that she likes getting compliments from this guy at work. that's what I am getting.

That really depressed me and after that I felt like an idiot when ever I thought to compliment her.

i'm really sorry to hear, there's a lot of great gals out there.

 

[honestrosewater]

Also, a friend told me not to long ago, that one could summarize the relationship between men and women as "men give love to get sex, and women give sex to get love." I find that to be an abhorrent thought, and it is certainly does not reflect my values nor those of my parents. On the other hand, I have had several male and female friends concur with that view - which I find rather sad.

Ditto. I mean, I guess if that's really what makes some people happy, great. I think I'd have a hard time believing that that actually makes anyone happy though.

 

[quantumcarl]

Well, for me, it's nowhere near so clear cut. Sure, Monique is absolutely adorable! But I don't find, say, Evo attractive nor cute. (No offense!) And Gale is cute, I suppose, but I don't find her attractive.
And I don't think I ever considered honestrosewater cute & attractive until after this thread.

For the most part everyone is in plain old black and white. Its a true cutey-pie that can come across as "cute" using only the various combinations of 26 characters and a few animated gifs. Bravo.

But, what's wrong with men? I seem to have missed the answer. Is it all men, just gay cowboys, only construction workers, the troops!, what men are we talking about?

My philosophy is that we are all people. Some men are more woman than some women... some women are more men that some men... so... what gives?

 

[loseyourname]

Well, for me, it's nowhere near so clear cut. Sure, Monique is absolutely adorable! But I don't find, say, Evo attractive nor cute. (No offense!) And Gale is cute, I suppose, but I don't find her attractive.

I have to say that Monique is the only one on this forum that I would even think to call "cute." Although Moonbear's no-nonsense handling of mud-covered pigs and other farm animals is pretty damn sexy, for whatever reason.

And I don't think I ever considered honestrosewater cute & attractive until after this thread.

This might sound offensive at first, but Rachel here falls into the category of otherwise attractive but not girlfriend material prima facie. She seems great, but frankly her hangups and insecurities and all that scare me away. I've had too many mental cases and am extremely wary at this point. I guess my constructive point here is that I think it is actually a very good idea for her to be taking things as she is; just start out as friends and if things advance from there, so be it. Provided she isn't physically repulsive or anything (I doubt it, but hey, I've never seen her), I'd probably want her, but my better senses would tell me to hold off until she had proven herself. Maybe it's best that she take the same approach to guys, because I get the impression that it'll take a rather rare breed to really have any shot with her. Not that she strikes me as difficult or anything, but she doesn't seem very easily impressed, and she's obviously not one of those women that'll just cling to whatever the wind blows in. Go ahead and be picky.

What the hell kind of guys are in Tampa, anyway? Is that in a decent part of Florida, or is it redneck territory?

 

[franznietzsche]

I try to. I used to tell one of my exs that she was beautiful all the time. She would always just roll her eyes at me and tell me that she looked terrible. Then one day she said to me that some guy at her work had complimented her that day, that he tends to do that, and how much she really likes it when she's out or at work and some one compliments her, almost as if she were hinting that I didn't do so. That really depressed me and after that I felt like an idiot when ever I thought to compliment her.

Its not the compliments that she likes, its the feeling of status. Compliments are irrelevant, and pointless. There are far better ways to demonstrate respect and affection that don't make you come out losing like a nice guy.

 

[franznietzsche]

I realized a few months ago that I had developed that habit of dismissing compliments from men. I didn't even really think much of it until someone said something.

This is because compliments are cheap words. It takes very little effort to say something nice about a person (unless you actually have a modicum of honor and honesty). It is much, much harder to actually mean it usually. Cheap words are not an effective way of showing anything.

 

[Lisa!]

I still can't understand something! What do you mean when you say someone's cute? Is it more about appearance or peronality and attitude?

 

[ShawnD]

I try to. I used to tell one of my exs that she was beautiful all the time. She would always just roll her eyes at me and tell me that she looked terrible. Then one day she said to me that some guy at her work had complimented her that day, that he tends to do that, and how much she really likes it when she's out or at work and some one compliments her, almost as if she were hinting that I didn't do so. That really depressed me and after that I felt like an idiot when ever I thought to compliment her.

Are you saying these things in a playful manner or in a serious way? Maybe it's just me but I take a lot better to compliments that are not meant to be too serious. It means a lot more when my female lab partner says something like "I want the samples, and your ass" than when my real girlfriend says some corny thing about me being handsome (maybe it's just this term that gets me). I want my girl to love me, not just be attracted to me. Your girlfriend probably felt the same way about your complimenting her looks.

Lisa, as far as I know cute is a combination of personality and looks; usually with a kind of fun attitude, and this applies to both sexes. The sexy girl who gets along really well with the guys is cute. The girl who looks like paris hilton is not cute.

 

[franznietzsche]

I still can't understand something! What do you mean when you say someone's cute? Is it more about appearance or peronality and attitude?

Its like when someone says they're in love. Doesn't mean much at all.

Cynicism aside, it differs.

 

[honestrosewater]

This might sound offensive at first, but Rachel here falls into the category of otherwise attractive but not girlfriend material prima facie. She seems great, but frankly her hangups and insecurities and all that scare me away. I've had too many mental cases and am extremely wary at this point.

Well, it's very scary asking this, but are the hangups, insecurities, and such that you're referring to only the ones regarding dating, men, and such -- the stuff I'm talking about in this thread? There are things in other areas of my life that I wish weren't so and want to change, but I'm not sure how much criticism I could take at once. If you want to point out specific things, that might be helpful. They might be things that I would agree I should change and just haven't noticed or wanted to face (this is where the scariness comes in).
And this might sound defensive at first, but I am working on it.

I guess my constructive point here is that I think it is actually a very good idea for her to be taking things as she is; just start out as friends and if things advance from there, so be it. Provided she isn't physically repulsive or anything (I doubt it, but hey, I've never seen her), I'd probably want her, but my better senses would tell me to hold off until she had proven herself. Maybe it's best that she take the same approach to guys, because I get the impression that it'll take a rather rare breed to really have any shot with her. Not that she strikes me as difficult or anything, but she doesn't seem very easily impressed, and she's obviously not one of those women that'll just cling to whatever the wind blows in. Go ahead and be picky.

Hm, I think we would fight a lot unless our 'styles' changed. I mean, I sometimes allow myself to be too uncomfortable in order to avoid making others uncomfortable, and you don't seem to worry too much about that. I've been working on correcting that, but I'm not sure I would want to end up where you are; I think you might not worry enough about others' comfort for my taste. I haven't figured out the right approach yet. For example, I think my not using smileys in this post because I know you don't like them is reasonable, but perhaps I'm wrong. I'm just saying... it seems like one of those things that could cause a lot of friction. (And not the good kind either.)

What the hell kind of guys are in Tampa, anyway? Is that in a decent part of Florida, or is it redneck territory?

We have paved roads and all that jazz. It's a fairly large city, I guess. I don't know about the men. Last time I checked (a very long time ago), there were all kinds of men. I don't know why I'd confine myself to Tampa Bay though.

Thanks for your opinion, by the way. (Haha, that smiley was just habit. But now I'm leaving it there as an experiment.)

 

[Astronuc]

Its not the compliments that she likes, its the feeling of status. Compliments are irrelevant, and pointless. There are far better ways to demonstrate respect and affection that don't make you come out losing like a nice guy.

This is because compliments are cheap words. It takes very little effort to say something nice about a person (unless you actually have a modicum of honor and honesty). It is much, much harder to actually mean it usually. Cheap words are not an effective way of showing anything.

Some truth in that. The problem is how to tell a sincere compliment from insincere flattery.

So what's the ideal form of communication? How does one tell the other that one really finds the other attractive? Or more importantly, how to tell another that one appreciates him or her?

For me, I simply say what I mean (although I might not find the right words, which has caused problems in the past), and I mean what I say.

 

[Astronuc]

I have to say that Monique is the only one on this forum that I would even think to call "cute." Although Moonbear's no-nonsense handling of mud-covered pigs and other farm animals is pretty damn sexy, for whatever reason.

I thought the swine reference would be to SOS2008.

She seems great, but frankly her hangups and insecurities and all that scare me away.

Everyone has hangups, insecurities or issues. We pick that up through life, especially from families from observation of the parents/grandparents/aunt & uncles and their relationships, and from siblings, and from prior relationships.
From my perspective, I like the way hrw thinks.

. . . . it is actually a very good idea for her to be taking things as she is; just start out as friends and if things advance from there, so be it. Provided she isn't physically repulsive or anything (I doubt it, but hey, I've never seen her), I'd probably want her, but my better senses would tell me to hold off until she had proven herself. Maybe it's best that she take the same approach to guys, because I get the impression that it'll take a rather rare breed to really have any shot with her. Not that she strikes me as difficult or anything, but she doesn't seem very easily impressed, and she's obviously not one of those women that'll just cling to whatever the wind blows in. Go ahead and be picky.

I agree, and by all means - be very picky.

Seriously, if one is looking to find another for a long term meaningful relationship, particluarly marriage in which one might have children, then one must choose careful and be very picky.

 

[Hurkyl]

Ah, this is going to drive me crazy. I need to know what I did! C'mon, think! Think! This info could really come in handy.

I think, if it makes sense, that this thread made me recognize you as a girl. Until that point, I knew you were female, but only thought of you only as a person, with no regard to gender.

 

[Lisa!]

Thanks, Shawn and franznietzsche! Some how I was afraid of using this word where it's not appropriate.

 

[Evo]

I love how people talk about me liked I'm day old chopped liver. News flash...I can read these posts people! Thanks guys. I have the memory of an elephant. I won't forget this.

The doctor says that after the surgery the hump on my back won't be nearly as noticeable and with special shoes, I won't waddle nearly as much.

You guys have no idea what a knockout MIH is, she sent me a picture recently of her and her coworkers at a restaurant. HOLY MOLY, she's GORGEOUS! The Barbie avatars don't do her justice.

 

[Hurkyl]

Things like being cute or attractive are not synonymous with things like being pretty, or beautiful.

 

[Moonbear]

Things like being cute or attractive are not synonymous with things like being pretty, or beautiful.

Nice save!

 

[honestrosewater]

I think, if it makes sense, that this thread made me recognize you as a girl. Until that point, I knew you were female, but only thought of you only as a person, with no regard to gender.

Oh, I was only kidding. Thanks for thinking about it. I sometimes just notice that someone is kinda cute too. The funniest one was arildno. One day my brain just sent me the little message, "hey, he's kinda cute", and the very next day he started his 'Realizing you're gay' thread.

Hey, can anyone suggest a female equivalent of guy? Boy and girl both refer to children; men and women to adults; but guy, which I tend to use in casual conversation for adult males, especially friends or ones around my age, doesn't seem to have a partner that people use. I guess gal would work, but I don't really like it. It's not cool enough. I don't assume people mean any disrespect by using girl or anything; it's just the ambiguity and guy not having a counterpart that bothers me. What's a good term for a female guy?

 

[Evo]

What's a good term for a female guy?

It's gal. As in "guys 'n gals". Sorry, but that's the only polite word. I know, "gal" sounds cowboy.

 

[Moonbear]

Hey, can anyone suggest a female equivalent of guy? Boy and girl both refer to children; men and women to adults; but guy, which I tend to use in casual conversation for adult males, especially friends or ones around my age, doesn't seem to have a partner that people use. I guess gal would work, but I don't really like it. It's not cool enough. I don't assume people mean any disrespect by using girl or anything; it's just the ambiguity and guy not having a counterpart that bothers me. What's a good term for a female guy?

At risk of Russ giving me a hard time again...

gal seems to be the only counterpart to guy, but, yeah, it never sounds right. Maybe just because people don't use it much, so it sounds funny when you do hear it (I think of some waitress from Flo's Diner when I hear someone calling people "gals"). Oh, wait, isn't it Guys and Dolls? Well, I think we just should come up with our own term since there isn't a decent sounding one. How about omnipotent goddesses?

 

[honestrosewater]

Oh, wait, isn't it Guys and Dolls?

Yeah, but I wasn't expecting a doll to bring that up.

Well, I think we just should come up with our own term since there isn't a decent sounding one. How about omnipotent goddesses?

Maybe one that guys can spell would be better?

 

[The_Professional]

You guys have no idea what a knockout MIH is, she sent me a picture recently of her and her coworkers at a restaurant. HOLY MOLY, she's GORGEOUS! The Barbie avatars don't do her justice.

private message it to me. i'd like to see gorgeous

 

[Moonbear]

Maybe one that guys can spell would be better?

Oh, that limits things. I guess that puts us back to gals. *ducks and runs*

 

[Math Is Hard]

private message it to me. i'd like to see gorgeous

don't get too excited. By "gorgeous" Evo simply means "not completely hideous or showing physical disfigurements that would cause small children to cry and run away".

 

[Hurkyl]

Boy and girl both refer to children;

I'm of the opinion that at least "girl" has long progressed past simply referring to children. All the other terms I can imagine just don't sound right. e.g. "woman" and "female" both sound too formal, and "gal" just sounds odd.

I know a girl who uses the word "boys" extensively, the way people use "girl". It sounds perfectly normal coming from her.

 

[BobG]

private message it to me. i'd like to see gorgeous

Why the PM? It's already posted on the Internet. MIH and the gang
Math Is Hard is definitely hot, but the guys in the picture scare me.

 

[The_Professional]

Why the PM? It's already posted on the Internet. MIH and the gang
Math Is Hard is definitely hot, but the guys in the picture scare me.

yea, especially the one holding a severed head.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm of the opinion that at least "girl" has long progressed past simply referring to children. All the other terms I can imagine just don't sound right. e.g. "woman" and "female" both sound too formal, and "gal" just sounds odd.
I know a girl who uses the word "boys" extensively, the way people use "girl". It sounds perfectly normal coming from her.

Well, we've had this particular conversation at length before, and I'm not crazy enough to get into it again. The only thing I'll comment on is calling women "females." I don't mean in a clinical setting "Sex of patient: female", but in referring to an actual person informally. I've heard it from a few people recently and it sounds so strange. It's a bit too cold and impersonal sounding to hear, "I met this female at the bar last night..." I just end up wondering if they were trying to actually meet people for social reasons or if they were conducting a research study. Anyway, since I've heard a few people say it, I'm wondering if it's something that's gaining usage, or do I just hang out around strange people? They aren't all from this local area originally, so it's unlikely to be a local usage.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Why the PM? It's already posted on the Internet. MIH and the gang
Math Is Hard is definitely hot, but the guys in the picture scare me.

Oh, cool! It's me and Moonbear. But yeah, who are those gay guys in the back seat? Moonbear, I don't remember that outing, do you? I musta been hammered after a night at Tiki Bar or something.

 

[The_Professional]

Well, we've had this particular conversation at length before, and I'm not crazy enough to get into it again. The only thing I'll comment on is calling women "females." I don't mean in a clinical setting "Sex of patient: female", but in referring to an actual person informally. I've heard it from a few people recently and it sounds so strange. It's a bit too cold and impersonal sounding to hear, "I met this female at the bar last night..." I just end up wondering if they were trying to actually meet people for social reasons or if they were conducting a research study. Anyway, since I've heard a few people say it, I'm wondering if it's something that's gaining usage, or do I just hang out around strange people? They aren't all from this local area originally, so it's unlikely to be a local usage.

so what would be a more appropriate term for you? if let's say a guy is on a date with you. would you rather him say women, ladies or the opposite sex :)

 

[Evo]

don't get too excited. By "gorgeous" Evo simply means "not completely hideous or showing physical disfigurements that would cause small children to cry and run away".

She lies! I think I'll sell the picture on e-bay. "Hot brainy woman eats food". I'll start the bids at $500.

 

[The_Professional]

quit teasing