What is the relationship between light rays and the equations of motion in GR?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between light rays and the equations of motion in General Relativity (GR), specifically exploring how light behaves in a gravitational field compared to test particles. Participants seek references and derivations related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Michel requests references for deriving the equations of light rays in GR and comparing them to test particles in gravitational fields.
  • Some participants propose that idealized test particles follow null geodesics, while actual photons, having energy, deviate slightly from these geodesics.
  • It is suggested that the deviation of photons from geodesics is negligible and unlikely to have measurable effects in the universe.
  • One participant notes that photons from distant supernovae arrive with indistinguishable speed and direction, attributing any variation in propagation to electromagnetic interactions rather than gravitational effects.
  • Another participant mentions that the equivalence principle implies that locally, photons of all energies follow identical paths in a free-falling reference frame, despite their energy differences.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of energy-related deviations of photons from geodesics, with some arguing these deviations are negligible while others acknowledge their theoretical existence.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights assumptions regarding the gravitational effects of photons compared to typical gravitational sources, and the implications of the equivalence principle in local reference frames.

lalbatros
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Hello,

Would you know a reference showing and deriving the equations of light rays in GR.
I would like to read that as well as to compare that to the equations of motion of test particles in a gravitaional field.

Thanks,

Michel
 
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Lalbatros, how is this?
 
Idealized test particles, with no effect on an ambient gravitational field, follow null geodesics...actual light, that is photons, have some energy, so in fact they deviate slightly from geodesics in the real world...so a more energetic photon will follow a slightly different path than a low energy photon.
 
Naty1 said:
Idealized test particles, with no effect on an ambient gravitational field, follow null geodesics...actual light, that is photons, have some energy, so in fact they deviate slightly from geodesics in the real world...so a more energetic photon will follow a slightly different path than a low energy photon.

Although this may be true as a theoretical limit, any such deviation is so tiny that I don't know of any way for it to have a measurable effect in our universe. We know for example that photons with a wide range of energies from a distant supernova arrive with indistinguishable speed and direction, and even when there is some variation in propagation of photons, it is clearly due to (electromagnetic) interactions with other matter in space rather than gravitational effects.

The normal assumption in GR is that anything whose gravitational effect is negligible compared with that of the source of the field can be treated as a test particle. If you compare the energy of a typical photon with that of a typical gravitational source it should be obvious that this assumption holds in such cases by many orders of magnitude.
 
Naty1 said:
Idealized test particles, with no effect on an ambient gravitational field, follow null geodesics...actual light, that is photons, have some energy, so in fact they deviate slightly from geodesics in the real world...so a more energetic photon will follow a slightly different path than a low energy photon.
As Jonathan said, any such effect would be extremely difficult to detect. Additionally the equivalence principle suggests that locally and ignoring tidal effects that photons of all energies follow identical paths, because in the reference frame of a free falling lab, all photons from the same location follow an identical straight path no matter what their energy is.
 

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