What is the significance of U at infinity in relation to Earth?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of gravitational potential energy (U) at infinity in relation to Earth, exploring the conventions used in defining potential energy in gravitational contexts. Participants engage with the theoretical implications and mathematical formulations related to gravitational potential energy, particularly in the context of escape velocity and reference points.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the value of potential energy (U) at infinity with respect to Earth, seeking clarification on its significance.
  • One participant states that potential energy is typically defined as zero at infinity, suggesting that U is negative for distances less than infinity.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the absolute value of potential energy is arbitrary and can be defined based on convenience, such as setting it to zero at the floor in lab experiments or at infinity in space.
  • There is a discussion about the formula for U, with one participant suggesting that it can be derived by integrating the gravitational force over distance to infinity, particularly in the context of escape velocity.
  • Some participants point out that the simplification of potential energy as 'mgh' is not accurate for scenarios involving escape from Earth's gravity, highlighting the need for a more comprehensive approach.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding regarding the simplification of potential energy, indicating a realization of the complexity involved in the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and significance of potential energy at infinity, with no consensus reached on the best approach to understanding the concept. Some participants agree on the conventional definition of U at infinity, while others challenge the simplifications presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding potential energy, particularly regarding the assumptions made in using simplified formulas like 'mgh' and the implications of defining reference points for potential energy.

John Mcclane
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hello sir ...can anyone explain me the value of (U) at infinity with respect to Earth as reference point
 
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Potential energy is given by 'mgh' where the 'g' is acceleration due to the Earth's gravity. As soon as you escape the Earth's gravitational field, it stops affecting you. So the value of PE at infinity doesn't really come up.
 
U of what?

The absolute value is arbitrary, it is chosen to make the problem as simple as possible. For experiments in the lab, potential energy is typically zero at the floor, for experiments in space, it is more convenient to set the potential "at infinity" to zero - but you do not have to do this.
 
The usual formula for U uses infinity as the reference point. U of Earth referenced to infinity is the opposite of U of infinity referenced to earth. So just take the usual formula, find U of Earth referenced to infinity, and flip the sign.
 
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siddharth23 said:
Potential energy is given by 'mgh' where the 'g' is acceleration due to the Earth's gravity. As soon as you escape the Earth's gravitational field, it stops affecting you. So the value of PE at infinity doesn't really come up.
As the other answers implied, that isn't correct. Mgh is as typically used is a simplification for constant g. But for "escape", you'd combine with the equation for gravitational acceleration and integrate over the infinite distance to escape. That's how escape velocity is found and you can find the derivation on its wiki page.

And due to the continuous nature of the gravitational force equation, there is, of course, no distance where the force is exactly zero and Earth's gravity stops affecting you.
 
russ_watters said:
As the other answers implied, that isn't correct. Mgh is as typically used is a simplification for constant g. But for "escape", you'd combine with the equation for gravitational acceleration and integrate over the infinite distance to escape. That's how escape velocity is found and you can find the derivation on its wiki page.

And due to the continuous nature of the gravitational force equation, there is, of course, no distance where the force is exactly zero and Earth's gravity stops affecting you.
Ya I realized that. Do I feel silly!
 
John Mcclane said:
hello sir ...can anyone explain me the value of (U) at infinity with respect to Earth as reference point
As others have pointed out, typically the potential energy is conventionally defined as U = 0 when the distance is infinity, r = ∞. Following this convention, U is negative for values of r < ∞. In other words, most of the time U is negative when an object is near Earth.

This is merely a convention though. You can define U = 0 at any distance you wish, but it's usually chosen to be zero at r = ∞. There is no such thing as "absolute" potential energy.

Although this is not part of your original question, if you wanted to you can find the rest of the formula by evaluating the work done by slowly lifting a mass from the surface of the Earth R, up to infinity.
[tex]W = \int_R^{\infty} \vec F \cdot \vec {dr}[/tex]
or more generally at an arbitrary radius r (such that r is greater than the radius of the Earth, of course),
[tex]W = \int_r^{\infty} \vec F \cdot \vec {dr'}[/tex]Then use the work-energy theorem to express that work in terms of potential energy.

I gather you know what the gravitational force, [itex]\vec F[/itex] is, as a function of [itex]r[/itex]?
 
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