What make the electrons to move in conductor with current?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms that cause electrons to move in a conductor when a direct current is applied. Participants explore the roles of electric and magnetic fields, the nature of electric current, and the underlying physics concepts, including electromagnetism and the Lorentz force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the movement of electrons in a conductor is driven by the electric field created by a potential difference, rather than a magnetic field.
  • One participant references the Lorentz force equation (F=qE) to explain how the electric field exerts a force on electrons, prompting their movement.
  • Another participant describes the relationship between current, charge carriers, and drift velocity, providing a mathematical formulation (I = neAv_d) to illustrate the flow of electrons.
  • There is a suggestion that the perturbation of the electric field propagates through the conductor, allowing for faster signal transmission than the drift velocity of the electrons themselves.
  • Some participants express confusion about the nature of the electric field and its relationship with the movement of electrons, questioning whether the electric field is fixed or moves with the electrons.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the role of magnetic fields, with some participants arguing that the electric field is the primary influence on electron movement, while others mention the interplay between electric and magnetic fields as described by Maxwell's laws.
  • A participant asks for clarification on how current is generated through electromagnetic induction and what occurs within the conductor when a magnet is moved nearby.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the role of electric versus magnetic fields in electron movement. There are competing views regarding the influence of magnetic fields and the nature of the electric field in relation to the movement of electrons.

Contextual Notes

Some participants suggest that foundational concepts in physics, such as the laws of electromagnetism and displacement current, are necessary for a deeper understanding of the discussion. There are indications of missing assumptions and unresolved questions regarding the definitions and interactions of electric and magnetic fields.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and individuals seeking to understand the principles of electricity and magnetism, particularly in the context of direct current and electromagnetic induction.

  • #31
scientist91 said:
Look, how is possible some of the electrons to flow and on that section of the closed loop to miss electrons (+) and on the other side to have only electrons?(-)
Look, an emf is induced in the loop and electrons will flow around the loop. Beyond that I have absolutely no idea what your asking.
 
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  • #32
scientist91 said:
Look, how is possible some of the electrons to flow and on that section of the closed loop to miss electrons (+) and on the other side to have only electrons?(-)
I believe one is referring to Faraday's Law with respect to a conductor moving in a magnetic field -
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/elevol.html

There doesn't have to be a loop. There can be conductor and the electrons are forced to one end where they accumulate and provide a net negative charge, with a corresponding + charge at the other end of the conductor - and that establishes a potential difference. If a load is put across the conductor, one obtains a current.

And there is a similar effect for a current in a conductor called the Hall effect.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/hall.html

The one may ask - how does a magnetic field impart a force on a moving charge (Lorentz force), or how does a changing magnetic field or moving magnetic field impart a force on a charge, moving or not.
 
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  • #33
Voltage is from the one side there are missing electrons and from the other there are electrons so there is potential difference.
The atoms and electrons in the conductor are all same. So when you force them with the magnetic field all of them should move not part of them.
 
  • #34
scientist91 said:
Voltage is from the one side there are missing electrons and from the other there are electrons so there is potential difference.
The atoms and electrons in the conductor are all same. So when you force them with the magnetic field all of them should move not part of them.
The electrons are bound to atoms with different energies. Many electrons will move, but then Coulomb repulsion (force) prevents more from moving. One can increase the magnetic field which increases the number of electrons that can be 'forced' to the same end of the conductor. Turn off the magnetic field and the electrons rapidly return to the atoms from which they had escaped.

It's a bit like pushing a box up frictionless (or perhaps very low friction) slope. One pushes the box up the gravity field so far and then stops. One still has to push against the force of gravity even when stopped. Then remove the pushing force and the box slides down the slope. A somewhat crude analogy.
 
  • #35
Astronuc said:
The electrons are bound to atoms with different energies. Many electrons will move, but then Coulomb repulsion (force) prevents more from moving. One can increase the magnetic field which increases the number of electrons that can be 'forced' to the same end of the conductor. Turn off the magnetic field and the electrons rapidly return to the atoms from which they had escaped.

It's a bit like pushing a box up frictionless (or perhaps very low friction) slope. One pushes the box up the gravity field so far and then stops. One still has to push against the force of gravity even when stopped. Then remove the pushing force and the box slides down the slope. A somewhat crude analogy.
Which is that Coulomb repulsion, explain please. Thank you.
 
  • #36
scientist91 said:
Which is that Coulomb repulsion, explain please. Thank you.
The Coulomb force, the electrostatic force felt between two charged particles. I intend no offence when I say this, but you are expecting us to teach you physics from the ground up. While we are all patient folk and don't mind discussing the subject(s) we love, it is not necessarily in your best interests to learn the basics of physics over a forum. It would be much more productive to invest in an elementary undergraduate physics textbook, which could offer far more extensive and thorough explanations than are even remotely possible on a forum.

Best wishes,
Hoot
 
  • #37
hi
Hootenanny has explained very well.If you want a simpler explanation it follows
To create a flow of any substance you have to develop a didfference between its two ends.whether it is a tube full of water or a conductor.when a potential difference develops at the two ends of a conductor the electron starts moving from higher potenrial towards lower potential.Now how does this potential difference arises? the battery develops the potentialdifference whivh is measured in volts.ex 1.5 volt,9 volt ...
 

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