What Makes the North and South Magnetic Poles Unique?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences between the north and south magnetic poles, exploring their unique characteristics and the underlying principles that define them. It touches on theoretical models, atomic and molecular structures, and the nature of magnetic dipoles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the fundamental differences between the north and south magnetic poles, questioning whether these differences stem from atomic or molecular structures.
  • One participant introduces the Gilbert model, which describes magnetic materials as consisting of tiny dipoles with fictitious magnetic charges, suggesting that the distinction between north and south poles arises from this model.
  • Another participant presents the Ampere model as a rival perspective, arguing that it offers a more fundamental understanding by treating magnetic dipoles as tiny current loops, which leads to a different interpretation of internal and external magnetic fields.
  • There is a suggestion that the Ampere model does not support the existence of distinct north and south poles, as it describes surface currents instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of magnetic poles, with some supporting the Gilbert model and others favoring the Ampere model. The discussion remains unresolved regarding which model provides a more accurate representation of magnetic phenomena.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of magnetic dipole models and the assumptions underlying each perspective. There are unresolved questions about the implications of these models for understanding magnetic fields.

Physicist50
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I was wondering what the difference in the magnetic poles north and south is and what makes them unique.
 
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Physicist50 said:
I was wondering what the difference in the magnetic poles north and south is and what makes them unique.

One is North and the other is South.
 
Indeed, but what makes one magnet north and one magnet south? Is there a difference in atomic or molecular structure, or the way they work?
 
Physicist50 said:
Indeed, but what makes one magnet north and one magnet south? Is there a difference in atomic or molecular structure, or the way they work?
They are fictitious entities that correspond to what is commonly known as the Gilbert model of a magnetic dipole. It treats magnetic material as consisting of tiny dipoles comprised of fictitious point magnetic charges (monopoles), in analogy with real electric dipoles that can exist in a dielectric material. When such dipoles are uniformly aligned along say a bar magnet, one face is then considered to be exposed to north magnetic charges, the other to south magnetic charges. This picture is consistent with the correct external magnetic field generated by such a permanent magnet - although in real magnets magnetization is never completely uniform and the 'magnetic charge' distribution is somewhat more complicated than just charges at each end face.

A rival Ampere model is considered more fundamental as it provides a picture closer to what is actually thought to apply to real intrinsic magnetic dipoles. It treats the fundamental dipoles as composed of tiny current loops, and when these are aligned in a bar magnet, internal currents essentially cancel, leaving surface currents on the side surfaces that correspond to a solenoidal distribution. There is then no north and south poles. The Ampere model gives the same external field as Gilbert model, but yields a very different result for the internal field. Normally this doesn't matter as only the external region is accessible. Wikipedia has some good info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_dipole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment
 

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