What planes are flying over Europe right now?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the tracking of aircraft flying over Europe, particularly through the use of ADS-B technology and various online resources. Participants explore the implications of this data, including concerns about security and the effects of volcanic ash on flight operations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants mention the usefulness of websites like Flightradar24 and FlightAware for tracking planes, noting that not all planes are visible due to ADS-B limitations.
  • Concerns are raised about the potential misuse of flight tracking data by terrorists, with various hypothetical scenarios discussed regarding how this information could be exploited.
  • There is a debate about the accuracy of the data, with some claiming it is delayed by 15 minutes while others argue it is live and can be confirmed by visual observation.
  • Participants discuss the relevance of flight tracking data to weapon employment, suggesting that light weapons would not be effective against commercial airliners at cruising altitudes.
  • The impact of volcanic ash on flight operations is highlighted, with specific mention of a KLM flight that was noted as the only flight operating under such conditions, raising questions about its approval.
  • There is speculation about the safety of turboprop aircraft in relation to flying through ash clouds, with some suggesting that they could operate safely if below the ash layer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the accuracy and implications of flight tracking data, as well as the safety of flights in volcanic ash conditions. No consensus is reached on the potential risks associated with the data's availability.

Contextual Notes

Discussions include assumptions about the effectiveness of various weapons and the operational parameters of aircraft in relation to volcanic ash, which remain unresolved. The accuracy of data timing and its implications for security are also points of contention.

Borek
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Well, not every plane, just those equipped with ADS-B. Still, fun to check what it is flying over your house.

http://www.flightradar24.com/
 
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What a great resource for terrorists.
 
what said:
What a great resource for terrorists.

The data is delayed 15mins. But anyway what kind of terrorist plan were you worried about?

Option 1:
Build robot drone capable of reaching cruise height and speed of 747, and locking onto target - guided to correct flight number by google.

Option 2:
Stand at end of runway with shoulder launched missile. Shoot at big metal bird with US flag as part of logo.
 
mgb_phys said:
The data is delayed 15mins. But anyway what kind of terrorist plan were you worried about?

Option 1:
Build robot drone capable of reaching cruise height and speed of 747, and locking onto target - guided to correct flight number by google.

Option 2:
Stand at end of runway with shoulder launched missile. Shoot at big metal bird with US flag as part of logo.

If you've hijacked a plane, you could check if authorities have been tipped by seeing if other planes have been diverted. Or check the status of your wingman... If this is actually based on real radar data.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mgb_phys said:
The data is delayed 15mins.

What makes you think it's delayed?

As far as I can see, it's live, to within a few seconds, although a bit intermittent (not every plane shows all the time - probably depends on where receivers are situated). I just popped my head out of the door to confirm that an airliner was flying over here (near Southampton) in the direction matching the line on the map, although that could have been coincidence.
 
Somehow that terrorist thinghy is not exactly relevant when it is about weapon employment. The maximum effective altitude of light weapons, like the shoulder fired missiles is about half of the minimum cruising altitude of air liners and a terrorist would not really need air traffic control facilities like this to identify a certain aircraft in the terminal area around an airport. A simple VHF radio receiver would do the trick.
 
Jonathan Scott said:
What makes you think it's delayed? .
There used to be a little about box saying data was delayed 15mins (might have been another site).
The data is sent in the clear anyway - it's used by TCAS so it would be a bit pointless if a US and Russian aircraft were on a collision course but each's positions were encrypted from the other.

There was a complaint about the maritime one from the underwater salvage people that it gives away the position of wrecks they are investigating.
 
  • #10
Wow. Fascinating. Love the one for Europe.
 
  • #11
Thought I'd bump this, so PFers could see the planes not flying over northern Europe.
 
  • #12
I have thought about it too, I just forgot yesterday.
 
  • #13
lisab said:
Thought I'd bump this, so PFers could see the planes not flying over northern Europe.

Wow, that's amazing! That volcanic ash sure is causing problems.
Noticed a KLM flight(and the ONLY flight), wonder how that got approved.
 
  • #14
pallidin said:
Wow, that's amazing! That volcanic ash sure is causing problems.
Noticed a KLM flight(and the ONLY flight), wonder how that got approved.

Surprising indeed, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM_Flight_867" the effects of volcano ash.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #15
pallidin said:
Noticed a KLM flight(and the ONLY flight), wonder how that got approved.
Small planes should be ok, they are well below the ash. Possibly some commuter plane that carries a beacon for some reason (this data is from TCAS transponders that only planes above a certain size need)
 
  • #16
mgb_phys said:
Small planes should be ok, they are well below the ash. Possibly some commuter plane that carries a beacon for some reason (this data is from TCAS transponders that only planes above a certain size need)

Are turboprop ok?
 
  • #17
Greg Bernhardt said:
Are turboprop ok?
If they fly into ash no, if they are at 5000ft and the ash is at 20,000ft - yes!
 
  • #18
pallidin said:
Wow, that's amazing! That volcanic ash sure is causing problems.
Noticed a KLM flight(and the ONLY flight), wonder how that got approved.

For the record, that was an authorized test flight.

You can see the traffic increasing slowly.
 

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