What psi can be achieved from a 60mph wind

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    Psi Wind
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the pressure (psi) that can be achieved from a 60 mph wind, particularly in the context of automotive applications such as ram air intakes. Participants explore the theoretical calculations and principles of fluid dynamics that govern this phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the psi achievable with vents on a car hood at 60 mph, indicating a lack of background in fluid dynamics.
  • Another participant suggests using Bernoulli's equation for calculations, providing a shortcut that estimates stagnation pressure at about 0.06 psi.
  • A different participant presents a formula for wind pressure based on air density and speed, calculating a pressure of 0.08 psi at 60 mph, which aligns closely with the previous estimate.
  • One participant notes a discrepancy in constants used for calculations, expressing uncertainty about the source of this difference.
  • Another participant discusses the historical context of the coefficients used in their calculations, suggesting that engineering practices may have evolved to be more conservative over time.
  • This participant also provides a detailed derivation of the dynamic pressure formula, arriving at a theoretical dynamic pressure of approximately 0.0639 psi at 60 mph, while emphasizing the relatively small pressure compared to atmospheric pressure.
  • It is noted that the small pressure per unit area limits the effectiveness of ram air intakes compared to turbo-chargers, which can achieve greater pressure boosts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the order of magnitude of the pressure estimates, but there are discrepancies in the constants and formulas used, leading to different numerical results. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to calculate the pressure and the implications for automotive design.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various historical texts and constants, indicating potential limitations in the accuracy of their calculations based on outdated or differing methodologies. The discussion also highlights the dependence on assumptions such as air density and temperature.

Cyclonus
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If I put vents on the hood of my car and drove at 60mph what kind of psi could be achieved? I don't care about what kind of technique is used just curious about what kind psi could be created. I apologize if I'm not asking this correctly but I have no background in fluid dynamics.
 
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The wind pressure is proportional to the air density multiplied by the speed squared.
My very old engineering text gives pressure due to wind as; p = 0.0032 * v^2
where pressure p is in pounds per square foot and v is miles per hour.
For pressure in psi divide by 144 to get; p = .00002222 * v^2
So if v = 60 mph, then p = 0.08 psi.
This estimate agrees reasonably well with russ_watters result of 0.06 psi.
 
The rolled-up constant I used was 4005, which inverted is .000250. Not sure where the discrepancy comes from. But not a big deal.
 
I based my computation on an old formula to confirm the order of magnitude of russ_watters result. We agreed.

The coefficient should really be 0.00255646, not the 0.0032 as obtained from my 1938 engineering text that used a coefficient recommended by a paper published in 1911. I believe the result discrepancy comes about because Engineers are conservative and so overestimate the effect of wind on their structural designs. Standards have also been redefined during the last 102 years.

Further examination of the “rolled up” constant k based on;
dynamic pressure = half * density * velocity^2
Assuming air at 15°C and sea level, the density is 1.225 kg/m3
and knowing that 1 psi = 6.8948*10^3 Pa

k = (0.5 * 1.225 * 1609.344^2) / (6894.8 * 3600^2)
So k = 17.7532e-6
And 1 / k = 56327.87
Then psi = mph^2 * 17.7532e-6
Or psi = mph^2 / 56327.87

At 60 mph the theoretical dynamic pressure will be 0.0639115 psi

What the computation does confirm is that at the speed of road vehicles, the force of the wind on a large exposed surface can be very great, but the pressure per unit area is small when compared to atmospheric pressure. This limits the utility of ram air intakes and explains why a turbo-charger or super-charger must be used to get a significant charge boost. Fundamentally, a turbo-charger gives a greater pressure boost than a ram air intake because the blades of the compressor can move significantly faster than the vehicle.
 
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