What should I obtain my Bachelor's degree in?

In summary, the individual is a freshman at Penn State University with a strong interest in astronomy, cosmology, and the universe. They have decided to pursue a career in this field and are considering obtaining a PhD. However, they are unsure of what to get their Bachelor's degree in. After research, they have learned that a BS in physics will better prepare them for graduate school and offer more job opportunities compared to a BS in astronomy. They have also considered aerospace engineering, but it may not be as beneficial for their desired career path. They are seeking advice on which degree to pursue in order to achieve their goal of working as an astronomer/astrophysicist/cosmologist for a space organization or university.
  • #1
MrElculver2424
42
3
I am currently a freshman at Penn State University. I have always been greatly interested in astronomy, space, and the universe. Especially cosmology and the "larger pictures" of our existence. I have decided that this is what I want to do with my life...study the universe, help discover new information, and work on future space projects and missions.

I am having a little trouble laying out my educational future to make sure I succeed in this career area. Like I said earlier, I am mostly interested in astronomy and cosmology and the "larger ideas" of the universe...more so than microscopic, small, highly mathematical calculations. However, I did take two years of Physics (and one year of basic Calculus) in high school so it's not like I haven't been exposed to the math. I just didn't enjoy it as much as my "Advanced Astronomy" class that I took in my junior year, which focused on large ideas like stars, solar systems, black holes, galaxies, the expansion of the universe, etc.

From the research I have done, I have learned that it will be necessary for me to obtain a PhD to have success in this career area. I am willing to do that.

But my main issue is this: What should I get my Bachelor's degree in?

Even though I am more interested than Astronomy than general Physics, I have been told that getting my Bachelor's in Physics is better because it will give me a better educational background for entering astronomy later on. They told me that I can always focus on Astronomy & Astrophysics in graduate school.

So I have ruled out Astronomy for my Bachelor's. I can get my PhD in Astronomy or Astrophysics.

But now I am between this: Is it better for me to get my Bachelor's degree in Physics or Aerospace Engineering?

I have read that Bachelor's degrees Aerospace Engineering lead to slightly better pay right out of college versus Physics Bachelor's. However, I have also read that a Bachelor's in Physics will give you more job opportunities, because companies will hire Physics majors to work as Aerospace Engineers but won't hire Aerospace Engineer majors to work in Physics. Is this true?

What would be your advice to me? I want to end up working as an astronomer/astrophysicist/cosmologist for a space organization (such as NASA), or maybe even for a university, and help to plan and work on future space missions and projects.

What should I obtain my Bachelor's degree in?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
It is true that a BS in physics will help you become an astronomer more than a BS in astronomy. It will place you in a better position to get into graduate schools, since you will be more competitive at places with joint departments.

Being an Aeronautical Engineer will not help you be an astronomer. It has advantages, to be sure, but helping you become an astronomer is not one of them.
 
  • #3
Physics.
 
  • #4
MrElculver2424 said:
Even though I am more interested than Astronomy than general Physics, I have been told that getting my Bachelor's in Physics is better because it will give me a better educational background for entering astronomy later on. They told me that I can always focus on Astronomy & Astrophysics in graduate school.

So I have ruled out Astronomy for my Bachelor's. I can get my PhD in Astronomy or Astrophysics.

That's sounds about right, I'd go with that plan.

But now I am between this: Is it better for me to get my Bachelor's degree in Physics or Aerospace Engineering?

Where did Aerospace Engineering come from? I thought you wanted to be an astronomer/astrophysicist/cosmologist? Getting a BS in physics will give put you in the most flexible position to go into any of the above-mentioned fields once you get your degree. Plus, it will give you a few years to decide on a specialty while you're at it.
 
  • #5
Thanks for those replies so far.

DiracPool said:
Where did Aerospace Engineering come from? I thought you wanted to be an astronomer/astrophysicist/cosmologist? Getting a BS in physics will give put you in the most flexible position to go into any of the above-mentioned fields once you get your degree. Plus, it will give you a few years to decide on a specialty while you're at it.

It arose from my reading that Aerospace Engineers make more right out of college than Physicists. (Who doesn't like money...haha).

But in all seriousness, it doesn't appear to be that much more. The other reason it arose in my mind was because of Bill Nye (he does most of his work in Astronomy & Physics but he got his Bachelor's degree in Aerospace Engineering).
 
  • #6
If you are planning to go to graduate school, don't you want to pick a course of study that prepares you for graduate school?

Bill Nye is also not an astronomer. You need to decide if you want to be an astronomer, or to have a career more like Bill Nye's.
 
  • #7
Bill Nye does his work in Astronomy and Physics? In what capacity? I know him as an educator and TV personality. Wikipedia says he worked at Boeing.

In my opinion you should only pursue a physics BS if you want to get a PhD in physics or be a teacher. The notion that you can can just waltz into an engineering career with a physics BS is an exaggeration to say the least. With physics you will not be more competitive than actual engineering graduate for an engineering position.

I spent years unemployed and underemployed after getting my physics degrees. I went back and took engineering classes and was able to use that to break into an engineering position. This was a non-ideal path done as damage control for un-marketable non-PhD physics degrees.
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #8
ModusPwnd said:
Bill Nye does his work in Astronomy and Physics? In what capacity? I know him as an educator and TV personality. Wikipedia says he worked at Boeing.

In my opinion you should only pursue a physics BS if you want to get a PhD in physics or be a teacher. The notion that you can can just waltz into an engineering career with a physics BS is an exaggeration to say the least. With physics you will not be more competitive than actual engineering graduate for an engineering position.

I spent years unemployed and underemployed after getting my physics degrees. I went back and took engineering classes and was able to use that to break into an engineering position. This was a non-ideal path done as damage control for un-marketable non-PhD physics degrees.

I stand corrected. He is not an astronomer, but he is very knowledgeable about all fields of science and incorporates a lot of astronomy and physics into his science communication.

Thank you for the rest of your advice.

However, I'd like to clear up something: my goal is NOT to be a teacher. I may accept teaching on the "side" if it comes as part of a job, but my goal is to actually work on research and work on future space projects and plans. Working for NASA would be fun. Or another private sector space agency...

So that's why I'm still not sure whether to get my Bachelor's in Physics or Aerospace Engineering.

People often tell me to look at the resumes of famous science people of recent times like Carl Sagan, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Richard Feynman, Bill Nye, Michio Kaku, etc.

I have done that. But my goal is not necessarily being famous or well-known. My main goal is to actually work on productive things. Who are the people who are actually working on future space projects and missions? Where are they employed? What degrees do they have?

My future visions can be summed up by the following types of statements:

When we successfully take an asteroid, put it in orbit around the moon, and send astronauts to it...I want to have contributed to that project. When we send humans to Mars, I want to have worked on that mission in some way. When we discover life on another planet, I want to have been on that team of people who did it.

Hopefully it's clear to those who have the experience what I intend to do. So now I need help on how to get there...
 
  • #9
If you wish to get involved with astronomy, a physics BS will definitely put you in a good position. That being said, I am fairly certain Penn State has an astrophysics program so why not enroll for that?? That would definitely be your best bet my friend...
 
  • #10
MrElculver2424 said:
which focused on large ideas like stars, solar systems, black holes, galaxies, the expansion of the universe, etc.

Be aware that with the possible exception of one star with one solar system, none of the others will have a NASA mission any time soon.
 
  • #11
MrElculver2424 said:
My future visions can be summed up by the following types of statements:

When we successfully take an asteroid, put it in orbit around the moon, and send astronauts to it...I want to have contributed to that project. When we send humans to Mars, I want to have worked on that mission in some way. When we discover life on another planet, I want to have been on that team of people who did it.

It's probably worth pointing out that these projects you have listed don't really fall under the umbrella of astronomy or cosmology, at least in terms of what a typical astronomer or cosmologist will do. As an astronomer, you'll more typically work on projects like processing data from a telescope or array. As a cosmologist, assuming you're able to get one of these extremely rare positions, you'll work on mathematical models that will help us to understand the dynamics of the universe as a whole.

On the flip side, the projects you've listed will have people from many different disciplines contributing to them and the big question is really more one of what kind of contribution do you want to make. Do you want to design the rockets that put that satellite into orbit? Do you want to develop a new polymer for the suits worn by the first people to walk on Mars? Do you want to be a supervisor at mission control? You may not know exactly what you want to do, but it will help to develop an idea of the skill set you want to develop and the work that you think you would enjoy doing each day.
 
  • #12
Choppy said:
It's probably worth pointing out that these projects you have listed don't really fall under the umbrella of astronomy or cosmology, at least in terms of what a typical astronomer or cosmologist will do. As an astronomer, you'll more typically work on projects like processing data from a telescope or array. As a cosmologist, assuming you're able to get one of these extremely rare positions, you'll work on mathematical models that will help us to understand the dynamics of the universe as a whole.

On the flip side, the projects you've listed will have people from many different disciplines contributing to them and the big question is really more one of what kind of contribution do you want to make. Do you want to design the rockets that put that satellite into orbit? Do you want to develop a new polymer for the suits worn by the first people to walk on Mars? Do you want to be a supervisor at mission control? You may not know exactly what you want to do, but it will help to develop an idea of the skill set you want to develop and the work that you think you would enjoy doing each day.

I would say that I'd probably want to help plan the mission; be one of the leaders who designs the outlook of the mission or project. Not someone who physically builds an engine for a rocket. But someone who plans and constructs the mission as a whole. So for that type of position it would seem to me like I'd need to understand a little bit of everything...physics, astronautics, etc.

I'm sure you're aware of the Mars One project. What kind of people are working on that mission? It may not be the greatest example, but at least it is something that is actually happening right now. What kind of degrees do the people have who are leading designers and planners of that mission?

I think my issue is kind of that I want to do "everything." It's hard for me to limit myself to just designing rockets, or just working on one single mission, or just studying the past, present, and future of the universe. I kind of want to do it all. But I don't know if that's possible or not.

I would embrace variation in my work and change throughout my career. I would probably get tired of doing the same thing all the time. So after years of working on missions, I might want to study the universe more deeply and try to contribute to a more accurate future prediction of the universe (or vice-versa).
 
  • #13
composyte said:
If you wish to get involved with astronomy, a physics BS will definitely put you in a good position. That being said, I am fairly certain Penn State has an astrophysics program so why not enroll for that?? That would definitely be your best bet my friend...


They do have an Astrophysics program, but I still don't know if it would be best option to go Bachelor's (Astrophysics) and then PhD (Astrophysics) OR Bachelor's (Physics) and then PhD (Astrophysics).
 
  • #14
MrElculver2424 said:
I have read that Bachelor's degrees Aerospace Engineering lead to slightly better pay right out of college versus Physics Bachelor's. However, I have also read that a Bachelor's in Physics will give you more job opportunities, because companies will hire Physics majors to work as Aerospace Engineers but won't hire Aerospace Engineer majors to work in Physics. Is this true?

I'm puzzled by the prevalence of this old chestnut: "because companies will hire Physics majors to work as Aerospace Engineers but won't hire Aerospace Engineer majors to work in Physics."

Where exactly have you read this? What companies? If you're in the business of making aircraft, spacecraft , or satellites, you need aerospace engineers, not physicists. And no, a degree in physics does not qualify you to be an engineer. AFAIK, aerospace companies are not in the physics business.
 
  • #15
SteamKing said:
I'm puzzled by the prevalence of this old chestnut: "because companies will hire Physics majors to work as Aerospace Engineers but won't hire Aerospace Engineer majors to work in Physics."

I think that's only half of the truth: the other half is that engineering companies will hire physicists if they can't find anybody who is a better match for the job requirements. In the current recession, that puts physicists at the end of the line. When the recession ends, it might still put them at the end of an even longer line of foreign companies that can do the work cheaper.
 
  • #16
MrElculver2424 said:
They do have an Astrophysics program, but I still don't know if it would be best option to go Bachelor's (Astrophysics) and then PhD (Astrophysics) OR Bachelor's (Physics) and then PhD (Astrophysics).

What are the differences in course requirements between the Astrophysics and the plain Physics bachelor's?
 
  • #17
SteamKing said:
I'm puzzled by the prevalence of this old chestnut: "because companies will hire Physics majors to work as Aerospace Engineers but won't hire Aerospace Engineer majors to work in Physics."

Where exactly have you read this? What companies?

I'd like to know this too. I think people underestimate what an engineer learns in school. Not long ago we had a topologist publicly wondering why he couldn't get a job as an engineer.

And it works the other way too - people with engineering bachelors seem to think that they are prepared for physics graduate study, despite being 6-10 courses short of the expectation.
 
  • #18
MrElculver2424 said:
I would say that I'd probably want to help plan the mission; be one of the leaders who designs the outlook of the mission or project. Not someone who physically builds an engine for a rocket. But someone who plans and constructs the mission as a whole.

The number of these positions is very small. Perhaps ten. They are also not entry-level positions. It's a little like saying your ideal starting job is pitching for the New York Yankees.

Also, they require one to spend years living and breathing that one project, which conflicts with your other goal " It's hard for me to limit myself to just designing rockets, or just working on one single mission". Besides that, the way you get to that position is by doing a good job on a small piece of a project, and then a bigger piece and so on and so on. It's very likely your first job will be of the form "See this widget? I need one that does the same thing but is 10% lighter."

Finally, on top of all that, NASA's missions will be planetary for our lifetimes, and maybe forever. There will be no exploration of other solar systems or galaxies or black holes any time soon.

I think you have overconstrained your future job out of existence and will have to ask waht is most important. It is possible to study black holes, but your tools will be telescopes, satellites and computers, and not spacecraft .
 
  • #19
Vanadium 50 said:
The number of these positions is very small. Perhaps ten. They are also not entry-level positions. It's a little like saying your ideal starting job is pitching for the New York Yankees.

Also, they require one to spend years living and breathing that one project, which conflicts with your other goal " It's hard for me to limit myself to just designing rockets, or just working on one single mission". Besides that, the way you get to that position is by doing a good job on a small piece of a project, and then a bigger piece and so on and so on. It's very likely your first job will be of the form "See this widget? I need one that does the same thing but is 10% lighter."

Finally, on top of all that, NASA's missions will be planetary for our lifetimes, and maybe forever. There will be no exploration of other solar systems or galaxies or black holes any time soon.

I think you have overconstrained your future job out of existence and will have to ask waht is most important. It is possible to study black holes, but your tools will be telescopes, satellites and computers, and not spacecraft .

Thanks for the information; I understand those things. I understand that leadership positions only come after many years in the field and after proven success.

And when I referred to wanting to work on the "future missions in space to...black holes, stars, galaxies, etc." I AM aware that we won't be sending spacecraft s to those things any time soon.

What I meant was that I want to be a part of the next big missions and projects within my life time, whatever they are. You don't have to send humans aboard a spacecraft to another Earth-like planet; obviously that's not going to happen. What I meant was that, for example, the search for extraterrestrial life is a project. Like you said...using telescopes, satellites, computers, etc. That would be an example of a project I would like to work on.

As I said earlier, my main goal is not teaching. I loved my high school Physics teacher...he was a great guy. He had a Masters in Physics from Penn State University. But all he's doing is reiterating the same stuff we already know over and over to high school students. That may be fine for him because he has a wife, a son, a family, and that's where he's at in life.

But I think my mindset is different. I am determined to work on future discoveries and projects, even at the loss of a "typical" family and social life. I don't want to be stuck teaching the same information over and over.

I will teach if it comes as a side job with my position. Which kind of brings me to this question...

What are the daily routines like for Neil deGrasse Tyson (not including his public appearances)? He is an astrophysicist and director of the Hayden Planetarium in New York.

What is the daily routine like of a person at NASA on the team of people working on the asteroid capture project?

What is the daily routine of someone who works for SETI (the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence)?
 
  • #20
The question should be between a degree in astrophysics versus physics. Aerospace engineering isn't really useful if your main goal is to be an astrophysicist/astronomer. My advice would be to simply major in physics to keep your options open for graduate school.
 
  • #21
jtbell said:
What are the differences in course requirements between the Astrophysics and the plain Physics bachelor's?

Great question.

At Penn State, they call it the "Astronomy & Astrophysics Major." After your sophomore year, you must choose between an emphasis in either Graduate Study OR Computer Science.

Astronomy & Astrophysics Major with emphasis in Graduate Study
http://astro.psu.edu/images/pdfs/recplangrdst.pdf

Astronomy & Astrophysics Major with emphasis in Computer Science
http://astro.psu.edu/images/pdfs/recplancmpsc.pdf

...the difference between those two is that the one that emphasizes in computer science takes away a few physics courses in your last 2 years and replaces them with computer courses. So you lose a few advanced physics courses in favor of a few computer science courses.


And then there is the general Physics Academic Plan:
http://www.phys.psu.edu/undergraduate/degrees/General_Option.pdf

I think the difference here is that it just never touches on Astronomy at all; it just continues to dig deeper into Physics by giving you tougher and more detailed education in advanced math.


So in conclusion, I think the Astronomy & Astrophysics major replaces a few advanced math courses with Astronomy courses about the universe.
 
  • #22
"Students in the General and Medical Physics (Electronics, Computational, and Nanotechnology/Materials) options may select 9 (6) elective credits from the Departmental Program list."

You can still take elective astronomy courses.
 
Last edited:
  • #23
Rocket50 said:
"Students in the General and Medical Physics (Electronics, Computational, and Nanotechnology/Materials) options may select 9 (6) elective credits from the Departmental Program list."

You can still take elective astronomy courses.

I missed that at first.

So I guess what we're concluding is, it's better to major in "Physics" (because that way I won't "lose" advanced Physics courses), and I can still take Astronomy electives?

All this makes me wonder what benefit it even is to go for the Astronomy & Astrophysics major, then. Why would they even have it? I guess they have to.
 
  • #24
MrElculver2424 said:
I missed that at first.

So I guess what we're concluding is, it's better to major in "Physics" (because that way I won't "lose" advanced Physics courses), and I can still take Astronomy electives?

Yes.
 
  • #25
Here is an example of an ongoing space project:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/index.html#.VBYhHPldWSo

On some of these NASA mission pages, on the left, they have an option you can click on that says "TEAM." (Usually for the missions with smaller teams that they can list individual members for)

The Mars Science Laboratory probably has a very large team of people working on it, so they are not listed.

But there must be lots of people working on this particular project at NASA. Who are they? What degrees do they have? What are their job titles? What are their daily routines?

Answers to these questions would really help me determine if I would like to do something like this...
 
  • #26
Thanks for all the information everyone. It's still a little difficult for me to commit to making my undergraduate major Physics because my true interest is obviously in Astronomy. I guess I have to convince myself that it's for m own benefit my my future career.
 
  • #27
Oh...I have one more question.

Is it necessary to get a Masters degree if you plan to get a PhD? Is it necessary to go (1) Bachelors, (2) Masters, (3) PhD, or can you just go (1) Bachelors, (2) PhD? Which one is better?

How can I earn my PhD the fastest? I will graduate with my Bachelor's when I am 22. I have heard 4-6 more years for a PhD. So by the time I'm 28, could I have a PhD?

And then how does the job searching begin? I really hope I can find a job.
 
  • #28
You should read this...

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=240792

If I recall correctly, the average time to complete a PhD after your BS is 7 years. (It doesn't matter if you pick up an MS along the way or not. You apply for a PhD program after your BS.) Astronomy people are on the longer end of that distribution. Its not uncommon for them to take 8 or 9 years.

After your PhD you post doc for a few years at different schools or other institutions. Then you compete for a permanent position in astronomy which most PhD's do not get. Most end up retooling for a different career. Hopefully the computer skills you get along the way mean you don't have to retool much.
 
  • #29
What are examples of space research companies (other than NASA) that hire astronomers, astophysicists, physicists, and aerospace engineers?

I know Mars One is one of them. But there have to be others. 1/3 of astrophysicists work for these private sector space companies. I'm hoping someone can shine some light and list some of them.
 
  • #30
SpaceX? (Elon Musk's outfit)
 
  • #31
SpaceX seems to be hiring mostly engineers, not really physicists or astrophysicists. The part of space they're interested in reaching (in the immediate future) is already pretty well understood.

P. S.: I think it really depends more on what your course preparation and skills are at the end of your B.S., rather than the name of your major.
 
  • #32
olivermsun said:
SpaceX seems to be hiring mostly engineers, not really physicists or astrophysicists. The part of space they're interested in reaching (in the immediate future) is already pretty well understood.

P. S.: I think it really depends more on what your course preparation and skills are at the end of your B.S., rather than the name of your major.

What I'm trying to do is make sure I go down the right path so that I would be a good candidate for many different types of jobs in the field of "space." I may major my BS in Physics, and PhD in astrophysics, but if I can't find a job working on purely research, I might want to apply to places to work on designing and building spacecraft , and I want to be qualified for that just in case.

That's why I am trying to gather a list of space companies. Some of them seemingly have to hire astrophysicists and physicists (they need people to plan and design missions).

What about SETI? That is a research project...the search for extraterrestrial life, right? So they must hire astrophysicists.

I am just trying to form a clear and broad understanding of specific companies in the "space" field so that it's easier for me to look for jobs when I graduate, and I'm not totally lost in what I'm doing.
 
  • #33
As I sit here right now, I would rather deal with the abstract ideas and theories of space and the universe (astrophysicist) than physically use my hands to build spacecraft s (astronautical engineer).

But that could change, you never know. I might find that it's too difficult to find a good job as an astrophysicist and I might rather move into astronautical engineering because it's in more demand. So I would want to able to switch over to that with relative ease...
 
  • #34
MrElculver2424 said:
As I sit here right now, I would rather deal with the abstract ideas and theories of space and the universe (astrophysicist) than physically use my hands to build spacecraft s (astronautical engineer).

But that could change, you never know. I might find that it's too difficult to find a good job as an astrophysicist and I might rather move into astronautical engineering because it's in more demand. So I would want to able to switch over to that with relative ease...

...then you should study the required courses of each path and make sure you'll be able to cross over fairly easily. For example: typically, an astrophysics curriculum doesn't require Statics, Dynamics, and Mechanics of Materials, but most engineering curricula do. You should consider taking them just so you'll have fewer hurdles if you decide to go with engineering.
 

1. What factors should I consider when choosing a Bachelor's degree?

There are several factors to consider when choosing a Bachelor's degree, such as your interests, strengths, career goals, job market demand, and potential for growth and advancement in the field.

2. Is it better to choose a degree based on my interests or job market demand?

It is important to find a balance between your interests and job market demand. While it is important to pursue a field that you are passionate about, it is also important to consider the job opportunities and demand for that degree in the current job market.

3. How can I determine which degree will lead to a successful career?

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to this question as success can be defined differently for each individual. However, you can research the job market demand and potential salary for different degrees, as well as consider your own personal strengths and interests to determine which degree may lead to a successful career for you.

4. Should I choose a specialized degree or a more general one?

It depends on your career goals and interests. If you have a specific career path in mind, a specialized degree may be more beneficial. However, a more general degree can provide you with a broader range of skills and knowledge, making you more versatile in the job market.

5. Can I change my Bachelor's degree if I realize it is not the right fit for me?

Yes, it is possible to change your Bachelor's degree if you realize it is not the right fit for you. However, it may require additional time and coursework. It is important to carefully consider your options and consult with academic advisors before making a decision to switch degrees.

Similar threads

  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
12
Views
862
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
2
Views
473
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • STEM Academic Advising
2
Replies
50
Views
4K
Replies
7
Views
236
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
8
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
684
Back
Top