What was your motivation to learn programming?

[Hacker Jack]

Personally I don't know exactly why I want to learn programming. I am doing it anyway but my views on life are very dull and bland, I don't have any real interests besides basic human survival instincts which I think are where all my motivations stems from.

I am a young adult now but as a kid I use to be inspired by and motivated by movies I watched and games I played on PC. For example, when I watched Man vs Wild I use to be inspired and motivated to go out into my backyard and act like Bear Grylls surviving in the wild because I had a big backyard and space to do so, when it came to being inspired by games I use to learn and practice parkour in real life when I played Assassins Creed 2 on PC and could control the character do cool tricks,

I actually did well for someone my age learning how to parkour by myself. Now as an adult I had to deal with real life issues, one of them is taking antipsychotics and it making me not motivated to do anything and relying on cigarettes to get my dopamine fix so I feel at least happy smoking as opposed to miserable trying to accomplish tasks without smoking. Being on antipsychotics and dealing with it alone (But with God also I believe because I am a Christian) has opened my eyes in a way to harsh but true reality in that you learn that no one can help you but yourself in this world and it just sucks when all these fantasy ideas you build up are not actually how the world functions.

I guess that is part of growing up into a man from a boy but at least as a kid I had motivation to do stuff and it was really fun being motivated by fear and imagination to do things, something I wish I could still do... Also it's like people expect much more from you being an adult and sometimes you can't deliver at that deadline they expect you too...

So maybe my question is more like, how do you find motivation to do stuff when you are in a bad mood and if one of those things is programming, how do you push through to keep learning when you feel down and out some days...

 

[Stephen Tashi]

I don't have any real interests besides basic human survival instincts which I think are where all my motivations stems from.

You're not alone. Agreeing with that point of view is

What was your motivation to learn programming?

I was interested in the results of programming - in having a machine do calculations that I could imagine, but not work out myself. For example: enhance an image in various ways, investigate properties of complicated mathematical functions and mathematical models. It's the same type of motivation that leads a person to learn to use power tools to do carpentry instead of relying only on hand tools.

So maybe my question is more like, how do you find motivation to do stuff when you are in a bad mood

Sometimes I don't. When I do, it involves thinking in terms of actionable activities. For example, "Straighten up the bedroom" is somewhat vague. "Reorganize the closet" is more specific. "Box up unused clothes to donate" is more specific. "Get a empty box down from the top shelf to box up clothes" is very specific, and might be something I'd actually do, regardless of mood.

and if one of those things is programming, how do you push through to keep learning when you feel down and out some days...

You can look at books and videos about the general topic of motivation. (Some of them say that thinking about motivation is the wrong way to be more productive.) However, to get specific advice about programming, you should probably tell what programming language you are studying and how far your have progressed.

 

[TheShermanTanker]

My motivation was kind of silly:

I've been a huge fan of this game since I was young. It's the only game I've ever been allowed to buy online. To cut a long story short 9 or 10 year old me, I can't really remember, was told by my parents that if I did well in my exams they'd get it for me, so somehow I did. I played it for literal ages, it was just that fun. (Thank you Markus Pesserson for my childhood!)

Not long after that though, I discovered that the game actually had a multiplayer mode. And not just any multiplayer mode, you could actually inject your own code into the game's multiplayer servers to modify how the game behaved as you saw fit! I quickly got caught up playing minigames on multiplayer servers that had been custom coded by people who ran said servers as a full time job, and I enjoyed every bit of it.

Now, it was around this time that one of my most favourite minigames had gone defunct and had been removed from one of the servers that I played on. Naturally I was sour about that for quite a while, but after watching youtubers play Beta versions of said minigame, I came to wonder "Hey, what if I made the entire minigame myself? Yeah, then I'll just invite my friends to play with me and I can relive it again!", so I started going on forums to see how you'd make your own custom minigames with the Minecraft API. Turned out to be much harder than I anticipated and I pretty much gave up learning Java and PHP (Those are the languages used by the API) for a while since programming concepts are pretty hard for a 9/10 year old with mental disabilities to grasp. I somehow persevered through it and began development on my port of the minigame. My code was obviously horrible at first as is natural, with me doing things like

String world = getWorld("world"); //This returns an object completely unrelated to Strings!

but after a few tries I slowly started to get better.

In hindsight I'm glad I didn't give up, because soon after finishing the minigame that I wanted to make my curiosity started to get the better of me, with questions like "How did the base game code implement something like this from the API?" escalating quickly to "How does Java work?" and "How do computers in general work?". Soon I started wondering if I could make my own standalone game, since me and my buddies did come up with plots for games, but had no way to realize our ideas... until now. I ended up learning Unreal and Unity, but dissatisfied with how complicated they were I straight up moved to writing games from scratch with Java and the Java Native Interface (For calls to Vulkan with my own Shared Library written in C). I obviously didn't succeed yet because none of my games have been published, but I guess it's the learning process that counts, right?

Edit: I actually should mention that I played another game besides Minecraft that inspired me to make my standalone, which resulted in me learning even more about programming:

It was a great game, would recommend, and the sequel might be coming out next year

 

[DaveC426913]

My friend has a cute story about his introduction to computing.

He couldn't have been m ore than 10, and he found himself neglected and sitting at this computer-monitor thing with a keyboard.

He hadn't the faintest idea how to work it so he just typed the first thing he thought of.

> DOG
'DOG' is not recognized as an internal or external command.

> CAT
Catalogue of Drive C:
1980-10-21 02:39 PM <DIR> Desktop
1980-10-18 12:21 PM <DIR> Documents
1980-12-10 03:30 PM <DIR> Downloads
1980-10-18 12:21 PM <DIR> Favorites
...etc.

His first success lead to a lifelong curiosity and fearlessness of experimenting with computers.

 

[jedishrfu]

My first real experience with a computer was in my uncles house. He had an early Teletype machine and modem setup that could talk to GE Timesharing service. He was a GE programmer/engineer. I remember he showed me the text based game Gunner IV that made me think the computer was alive. I think from then on I started actively learning all I could about them. He showed me how core memory worked and gave me old manuals on Fortran. I was in middle school at the time.

My parents got me the Digicomp I one year from Edmund Scientific. It was a simple three bit mechanical computer that used three sliding flip flops to show a 1 or 0 in a display. You would program it in binary by placing little white tubes on the sliding flip flops. To run your program, you slid the clock slider back and forth for one clock cycle. It was fascinating to play with but I never quite connected the mechanical aspects with how you actually programmed it to do things.

I remember trying to build a history computer like the one I saw on the Time Tunnel. I found a timeline of human history from prehistoric times to the present.
I built a desktop shell with lights and switches and planned to build a kind of paper hole reader inside using paperclips.

You would program the date and then drag the paper thru the reader and the lights would light when the date was found. I spent hours on the build, learned a lot but never got it to work as intended as the paper clips and aluminum foil plate just didn’t make contacts well through the paper holes.

Later I built the Star Trek Gary Seven computer using mini Christmas tree lights and some multi-pole switches. It could play Nim and could cheat to insure it always won. It too was a fun game.

 

[berkeman]

Personally I don't know exactly why I want to learn programming. I am doing it anyway

My first programming class was in my freshman year of undergrad -- I took a Fortran class, and really enjoyed the intellectual challenge of the class. It was the class that motivated me to change from my initial ME/EE double major to a full EE major. Good times.

 

[FactChecker]

If you are interested in any STEM subjects, computer programming will probably become very useful. IMO, every STEM subject has aspects where the automation of calculations, analysis, simulation, or data processing becomes practically essential.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Later I built the Star Trek Gary Seven computer

I remember that episode. Roberta Lincoln was dreamy. Like a young Teri Garr.

Anyway, here's a guy who built his own computer. What's so strange about that, you ask? Entirely out of discrete components. Especially blinkenlights. Everywhere blinkenlights.

 

[yungman]

You ever talk to your doctor about the anti psychotic drug you are taking? This is every bit as important. Don't think this is YOUR problem, chemistry is everything. Ask if you can try an alternative drug. Don't believe if people say it's you. Get second opinion from another doctor. Try that first. I have been on anti depressant for 30 years. I tried counseling and all nothing works, the drug just cure me. Not all drugs works the same, when I feel it doesn't work, I ask the doctor to change the drug for me. Not all problem are psychological, chemical has just as much if not more effect on how you feel. But just in case, you ever try counseling? If not, try it too. My wife saw the drug works miracle for me, she felt she might need it, she got a prescription from the doctor. She took it, she just sat there all day long and didn't want to do anything! That's how those little pills can do to you. It's just not for her.

As for motivation, that comes with what you like. Just because you don't find you have motivation doesn't mean you DON'T have motivation. How many different things you tried? My English is bad, my writing is bad, that doesn't mean I don't have motivation to learn, just I DON'T like to learn English or any language as the matter of fact. I was from Hong Kong till 20 years old before I came here. You would think I learn read and write Chinese. I can't read or write Chinese if my life depends on it!

What make you think computer language is your thing? Maybe you just don't like it. Don't try to force yourself just because other people telling you it's a good career, that it's good pay and it's exciting and it's an "IN" thing. Keep trying different things and see what you like. Don't let people telling you whether it's a waste of time or anything. You are unique, just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean you have to like it.

When I was young, my passion was playing music(guitar). I was good at it. I thought it's going to be my career. My major was Chemistry in college, I just took the major because I was good at it. But when I graduated, I hated it so much I was a pizza delivery and still refused to send out resumes to look for a job in Chemistry. But I determined that I was going to find a career I love. I looked into what I like to do when I was young. I liked tearing up toys to see how they work, I got into field service of micro cassette recorders because to me it's common sense how to tear them up and fix it! From that, I found my true calling...Electronics. I have so much passion I even quit music all together and pursue it. I made a career out of it. Now that I retired, I still very passionate in Electronics. I am just taking a break learning programming for a little while right now. My point is keep looking, you never know until you get your hands wet on something. Just because you have not find it, that you don't have passion. I am opposite, I have too much passion! I started learning programming 5 months ago. I can count how many days I took off with one hand, average of 5 to 6 hours a day. AND I know I will drop it one day cold as my true passion is still electronics. This is just a challenge going into something that I absolutely new to it for once to challenge my brain. Old brain needs some exercise. Keep working on electronics is like staying in the comfort zone even if I get into a new field of electronics.

In summary, I would talk to the doctor first, don't take no as an answer, change doctor if you have to. To me, that's #1.

Then keep trying different things to see what make you tick. AND if all else fail, you really have to learn the word "commitment". You find the closest thing, commit yourself at least 3 months of hard learning then think it over whether that's your cup of tea. Just keep trying.

 

[jedishrfu]

I remember that episode. Roberta Lincoln was dreamy. Like a young Teri Garr.

Anyway, here's a guy who built his own computer. What's so strange about that, you ask? Entirely out of discrete components. Especially blinkenlights. Everywhere blinkenlights.

That project is right up there with the Turing machine lego models, the Babbage Difference Engine to prove it worked, and the K'nex adder.



https://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/



and then there were those two mathematician brothers with the massive apartment computer:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1992/03/02/the-mountains-of-pi

 

[haushofer]

That project is right up there with the Turing machine lego models, the Babbage Difference Engine to prove it worked, and the K'nex adder.



https://www.computerhistory.org/babbage/



and then there were those two mathematician brothers with the massive apartment computer:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1992/03/02/the-mountains-of-pi

These kinds of weirdos make me happy.

 

[yungman]

Why not making AND NAND OR NOR and all that with discrete transistors? That by itself is challenging and also gaining knowledge of electronics. That actually was used in those Norelco micro cassetter recorder( like Dictaphone back in the days in 70s) in my first real job in 1978. A lot of the logics are made with transistors like latches and all. That's how I got started in the world of electronics. It's easy to build, just some plug in protoboards and you can experiment away. I remember a few months after I got into electronics, I built myself a digital clock out of gates and counters and actually worked. Not very reliable, but I put it on display at the time to show what I did. With all the modern FPGAs, self contained MPUs, I wonder how much gate level experience people get in electronics. Sometimes it's good to get down to basics and actually draw out timing diagrams and look for race conditions that plaque the hardware design. People don't even know that when they program FPGAs thinking that it's just another programming language.

I hope those young EE still know how to design with logic gates and draw timing diagram!

 

[Hacker Jack]

I think I will stick to learning c++ for now, it is interesting and something new to try. Maybe in future I can try to learn electronics, people all around usually say electrical engineering is the hardest engineering to learn so I see why it would be a challenge to deal with I think it is called "Logic gates"? Maybe it is simple part, who knows, I don't know yet... anyway, I will talk to my doctor and see what I can do to improve, I think i mixed in antipsychotics into this question and ruined it, it is my own problem to deal with, programming is it's own problem to deal with as well, and hopefully it gets more fun as I keep learning it.

 

[yungman]

I think I will stick to learning c++ for now, it is interesting and something new to try. Maybe in future I can try to learn electronics, people all around usually say electrical engineering is the hardest engineering to learn so I see why it would be a challenge to deal with I think it is called "Logic gates"? Maybe it is simple part, who knows, I don't know yet... anyway, I will talk to my doctor and see what I can do to improve, I think i mixed in antipsychotics into this question and ruined it, it is my own problem to deal with, programming is it's own problem to deal with as well, and hopefully it gets more fun as I keep learning it.

No, actually that's very important to put it in perspective. Maybe it's not you. I am not a doctor or anything, but as I said I have first hand experience about how much those anti depressant can change a person. Like my wife was just sitting there looking at the tv when she took the Prozac. She had to quit after a few weeks. for me, it actually help me concentrate, all my achievements at work were after I was on it. Same drug affect people completely different, just ask the doctor, I am giving too much advice on this that I am not comfortable to do. Talk to the doctor.

I am learning C++ also. From people's advice here, it's not exact an easy language to start. I don't know your experience, I have to agree it's not easy. They advice me to go with Python first, maybe I should have. I'll let other experts give you the advice. I just don't want you to jump into deep water on the first step.

If you determine to go with C++, get the book by Tony Gaddis. That I have confident. I bought 4 or 5 books, only one that is good for self studying is Gaddis.

 

[harborsparrow]

I started out doing programming for money; I didn't love it, and I am slightly dyslexic and had to develop ways to organize my thinking so I could code. I could only do it in a quiet environment (music in particular makes it difficult for me to code). Somewhere along the way, a friend urged me to write a program just for myself, "for fun". I have now written several of these, and then I noticed that I started to feel really happy and satisfied when I was able to create an entire program for a job--say a web service--and it worked. It was a beautiful thing, although almost no one noticed that except myself. Like this one, which is miraculously still running: https://diatom.ansp.org/taxaservice/ShowTaxonomy.ashx?taxonomy_id=26&diatoms=0

So when I reached a certain level of competence, creating a robust, efficient program that works well is about as satisfying as writing something good, or painting something good, or playing music really well.

I don't know exactly how long it took for this satisfaction to set in, but it required a lot of time for me to learn enough to get all the parts right--to make a program remember it's previous state when it starts up, to make it keep a hidden log which I could use in case of unexpected failure, so I could see what a user was doing right before the failure, things like that. There are so many aspects to making a good web service or a good Windows or Mac application (I have made both), or a good, simple little grid game or puzzle. I've written that stupid Turnred game in several languages as a sort of limbering exercise; this one in Javascript: https://harbormist.com/pat/stuff/turnred.htm

I think it took me years to reach the point where I could really enjoy the act of creation, and I have no idea what kind of stubbornness it took me to keep plowing through until I reached that point. The same stubbornness, I guess, that allowed me eventually to learn to play a couple of musical instruments really quite well. It's the same process: I struggle along, and it can take quite a while before I can readily create in a program (or in music) what the imagination is creating in my head.

From all this, in my old age, I really I was realize I am just a damned determined cuss of a person to keep on going during the beginning stages of learning when it was hard and not yet rewarding.

I have no idea if any of this will help you. But I love that you asked this question.

As for feeling depressed, I struggled with that for years and tried everything including legal and illegal drugs, and honestly the thing which helped more than anything was starting to eat a healthy, most plant-based whole foods diet. I felt like a different person.

 

[yungman]

Hi Harborsparrow
There are something I can relate to you, stubbornness and refuse to quit.Once I determine to do it, I just refuse to quit until I reach a milestone. The harder it is, I usually am more determinant to overcome it. There are times I just don't feel like keep learning C++, but I just determine to study to a good stopping point. One thing I find very important in life...Commitment, honor commitment PARTICULARLY commitment to myself.

I am lucky that I found the passion of my life for my career--electronics. At one time when I was doing field service on micro cassette recorders(dictaphone type), I was stopping in every service call and sat in the car to study that I got fired from the job for not doing the job! after I got fired, I studied 18 hours a day for 3 months and found a real electronic technician job and got much better pay. I kept studying my whole life, never go to college on electronics, my degree was Chemistry. Started from the bottom, became EE, Sr.EE, Manager of EE, all from self studying. I was a musician also, been on tv and all in Hong Kong back in the days. I love electronics so much that I just woke up one day and packed up my guitar as I don't have time for that anymore. Never look back.

Now in my old age, I still refuse to just get old. I have been designing audio amps on my own for a while, but still is living in the comfort zone as electronics already become part of me, it's not really a challenge. One time my grandson who's a CS major in college said he needed some motivation. So I said the him "Is grandpa nipping on your heel a motivation?"! That's when I started learning C++, a brand new field that is way way out of my comfort zone. Believe me, it's NOT easy, be treated like an ignorant student just starting out. What make it much harder is the brain is just NOT like 40 years ago...I studied transistors, opamps and all the analog circuit in a book on my own that is 1 1/2 times the thickness of the Gaddis book in like 4 months and remember all of them! I hate to go from " you are doing great" to " your are doing great...for your age!". I never took classes in EE as school are too slow for me. I can still study electronics quite fast, I studied the audio power amp design book in like 2 months a few years back and designed quite a few amps that compare very good with power amps that are in $5K+ range. I attach a few pictures of my amps, it's nothing like what people think "home made". All pcb, SMD components on small parts...I compare the workmanship with top brand amps...... But this C++ is just so different. I can truly understand why old people just want to stay with the good old days and stay in the comfort zone, but that's just not me. I guess I have a little S and M in me!

 

[harborsparrow]

I advise you to move on to a language that has a good Integrated Development Environment for it. C# or Java (I don't really know much Python so don't know about its IDE's) both have very good IDE's for free. And they are great languages. If you want to pick either C# or Java, I can advise you on how to get started. If Python, you'll need a different advisor because it was some years ago that I even touched it and I never pursued it, having already fallen in love with both C# and Java.

The IDE makes it all much easier. It gives you "syntax coloring" to help you fix syntax and spelling errors, missing punctuation, etc. immediately. It gives "auto-complete" so you don't have to type library names out completely (once it figures out which one you want). And many other benefits such as automatic boiler-plate code generation if, for example, you are doing a user interface that is event driven. If you choose one of those, I can aim you at a website or two that will help you get started.

In your lifetime, you will never need operator overloading and those other "advanced" features you are now studying, and if you do need them, better to learn them in a more supportive language--in MY opinion. I am in awe of how far you've gone trying to learn OO programming.

And since I am now 67, I know exactly what you mean comparing the brain with the 20 year old brain. But we are less stupid in so many other ways not counting speed and endurance.

P S - I slightly prefer C# to Java, because the free tools from Microsoft are so very good these days. But the free Eclipse IDE for Java is also good. They are completely different and in either case, you'll need a bit of help getting started, especially if Java because you need to do some tinkering to get it set up. Whereas Microsoft Code for C# just installs ready to rumble. If you are doing number crunching, C# is probably faster these days.

 

[harborsparrow]

P S - I delved a little into electronics, mainly radio engineering, in my youth. But I found that circuit design was not fun for me. From the instruction set on up, however, I loved computers and telephones, especially. Programming them was something I added on later, but I always wanted to know how computers worked. So I understand your passion for electronics.

 

[yungman]

P S - I delved a little into electronics, mainly radio engineering, in my youth. But I found that circuit design was not fun for me. From the instruction set on up, however, I loved computers and telephones, especially. Programming them was something I added on later, but I always wanted to know how computers worked. So I understand your passion for electronics.

Thanks for the advice, the reason I keep talking about Python is because grandson kept talking about it and I am trying to encourage my 14 year old little girl to try out programming. I even bought her "Python for kids" book. Just like I started C++ because of my grandson, it's more about the grand kids now a days! For me, I don't need programming.

Interest and passion are so individual, digital hardware just doesn't do it for me. My passion is all analog RF microwave electronics. I actually started out in 79 writing some assembly language ( Z80, 8085) test program when I was a technician where I need to test out the boards. They notice me doing that and gave me more. All small little programs. I got a big raise out of it! I studied microprocessor, learning all the HL registers and all. I did know the microprocessor that time. I got promoted to EE shortly. when the chief engineer left to work for LeCroy(famous digital scope company), he pulled me over to design the control module with processor. So I am very familiar with those type of MPU hardware design. But after a year or two, I got bored. To me, digital design and programming are never hard, they are just complicated, many things( signals) to keep track of, but they are all 1 and 0. And what is worst is they are like fashion, they come in and go out of style fast. It's not hard to learn just like you said learning one language makes learning the second one easy. You design one type of hardware, it's easy to design another type, but you have to keep learning new things over and over. Like I learn and design Transceiver for Firewire, it was popular 20 something years ago, where are they now? I designed hardware for USB, I am surprised it's still around and kicking.

I decided to get away from digital hardware since 83 when the owner of LeCroy Walter LeCroy called me to NJ to work with him on a new data acquisition frontend, that was my first taste on high speed analog circuit, fell in love and never look back. Analog and RF is hard to get in, a very steep learning curve, particular RF and microwave, you need electromagnetics which needs advance math like ODE and PDE on top of multivariable calculus. I had to studied all those before studying electromagnetics to study microwave. Years of learning. BUT they don't go out of style, what you learn 40 years ago is just as valid today. I find that very challenging and interesting. Now a days with computers getting faster and faster, people don't get away with just knowing digital hardware. The signal and bus are all high speed, control line impedance, termination etc. They are starting to get into analog RF.

I kind of keeping up a little with hardware because I had to design them for work, like I designed USB interface, newer MPU with ADC and DAC circuits. But I tend to stay away if all possible and let my engineers do all the programming and testing. One thing I regret is I let one of my engineer designed all the switching high voltage power supplies. I should have got involve in it. I though it's just not challenge enough, I had bigger and better things to design. I regret this one. Now that I am retired, I don't have engineer I can tell to do it! I so wish I know enough to design SMPS. Those pictures I posted on my amp, The big transformer and all the caps and all. I could have used SMPS to make it lighter and smaller. I can't buy the supplies because the dimension won't work, they are too long. Also, they are noisy because they don't know what the hell they are doing. I can make a SMPS very quiet, we use them for very sensitive frontend electronics. It's all about the design, signal integrity knowledge. I am surprised so few people master this.

anyway, now a days, learning is all about cleaning out the rust in the old brain, just like doing exercise. It's important to keep in shape be it physical and mental. I still spend over 4 hours a week doing weight lifting and kick boxing on kicking bags to keep my body in shape. But go on "see food" diet, not like you eating healthy! BTW, I am 67 also. I am kind of on strike in studying today, that's why I have time to type a long post!

 

[harborsparrow]

Yes, the kids prefer Python, it is all the rage in part because beginning is easy and you don't even have to declare the types of variables.

As for the switching power supplies, I can certainly imagine commercial products being mediocre instead of excellent; so many things are. You'll probably laugh, but I've lately been enjoying a video series by a vacuum cleaner repair person who knows literally everything about Miele vacuum cleaners (and there is a LOT to know as it turns out). I enjoy him because he delves into every matter and is completely committed to doing excellent work. It is an artisan mentality and rather rare, so whether you even own a Miele vacuum cleaner (I have two right now), he loves what he does and thus, to me, he is fun to watch. Example:

Enjoy your day off! Do something easy like watch YouTube maybe :-)

 

[yungman]

Yes, the kids prefer Python, it is all the rage in part because beginning is easy and you don't even have to declare the types of variables.

As for the switching power supplies, I can certainly imagine commercial products being mediocre instead of excellent; so many things are. You'll probably laugh, but I've lately been enjoying a video series by a vacuum cleaner repair person who knows literally everything about Miele vacuum cleaners (and there is a LOT to know as it turns out). I enjoy him because he delves into every matter and is completely committed to doing excellent work. It is an artisan mentality and rather rare, so whether you even own a Miele vacuum cleaner (I have two right now), he loves what he does and thus, to me, he is fun to watch. Example:

Enjoy your day off! Do something easy like watch YouTube maybe :-)

I watched a few minutes, I just can't get into vacuum cleaners!

Don't get me started in talking about the products quality going down the toilet. They are just getting worst and worst. I have been playing with musical printers, 5 or 6 Canons, one HP, just got an Epson costing over $300, at least it prints good, but it got confused all the time printing the former file one more time when asked to print a new file. Just bought a Brother all in one to try out. Cars, tv, you name it I have problem with only the new ones. they are so inconsistent and unreliable.

I am glad you told me the overloading is not useful. I don't know what is important, I just study from cover to cover. You mean you don't have to declare types of variables in Python?! I thought C++ is loosy goosy already.

Thanks

 

[.Scott]

Back in High School in the late '60's, I walked into schools data processing center and volunteered. I saw other kids in their and liked the "toys" they were playing with. I quickly learned all of those toys (key punches, high speed card sorter, collate punch, 402 accounting machine), and in the summer before my Senior year, the school got its first computer - a room-size Honeywell 200. I was there during the installation, picked up the operators flip chart with a little help from the Honeywell installation guy started punching in binary machine code.

That kind of requirement-free exploration is always fun.
Of course, when you get paid for it, there are specific objectives - and at time the coding may exceed your normal casual interest. That's when you decide whether you really want to be a professional computer programmer. If so, you push through. Otherwise, you drop it.

There have been many studies that report that computer programming is among the best occupations. For a recent example: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs or Business Insider article
But perhaps that is because if you can't find any fun in coding, you will never be able to push yourself far enough to succeed.

 

[yungman]

Back in High School in the late '60's, I walked into schools data processing center and volunteered. I saw other kids in their and liked the "toys" they were playing with. I quickly learned all of those toys (key punches, high speed card sorter, collate punch, 402 accounting machine), and in the summer before my Senior year, the school got its first computer - a room-size Honeywell 200. I was there during the installation, picked up the operators flip chart with a little help from the Honeywell installation guy started punching in binary machine code.

That kind of requirement-free exploration is always fun.
Of course, when you get paid for it, there are specific objectives - and at time the coding may exceed your normal casual interest. That's when you decide whether you really want to be a professional computer programmer. If so, you push through. Otherwise, you drop it.

There have been many studies that report that computer programming is among the best occupations. For a recent example: https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/rankings/the-100-best-jobs or Business Insider article
But perhaps that is because if you can't find any fun in coding, you will never be able to push yourself far enough to succeed.

It is true the world become hightech, technology become a major industry and there's no ending in sight. If you are good, you won't worry about getting a job and you get good pay. BUT you really earn it. You marry to the job and there's no 40 hour week. It's constantly high pressure. this is the same as for electronic industry. The two goes hand in hand and is hard to even separate software or hardware.

I am a true believer of doing what you love in your career, or else it would be so hard to pass the 40+hours a week. Even though electronics is the love of my life, I retired when I was 53. I don't like the high pressure. I rather study and work on my own electronic project at home than to work.

Particular in programming, they change like fashion, you might be on top of the world, a few years later, new language are in and even the language you used may be upgraded. If you are out of the field for a few years, it's hard to get back. that's why when I was working, I stay away from software and even hardware and concentrated in analog and RF. Those don't go out of style. After I retired 10 years, the company called me back for a contracting job that I can work at home. I ended up working for a year and half between 2005 to 2006. They told me " you don't seem to miss a beat!". You want to bet you can't do that with software.

If there are jobs that is only 20hours a week, I think I would work until I die. But there's no job like this in hightech. So I retired. I actually quit the contracting job when I found out I got penalize on medicare and all that if I work! Or else, I might hang on a while longer. What's not to like, getting very good money and work at home! Stupid government want to charge me quite a bit of money on medicare just for working.

 

[John Kovach]

My 2cents worth.
Fortran as part of Eng Sci curriculum. After that programming was self taught due to necessity. APL for physics lab, assembly language for job advancement. I programmed early video games and was upset when they wanted me to write object motion using a table instead of math. My assembly lang. Skills got me another commercial job,then work in areospace programming assembly for an IBM 360 processor. Having established a good work reputation based in part on discipline from military service, I was given books on processor architecture and language and told to learn it and program it. Then came C, some self taught, some company classes, just enough to do the job, then ADA.

Some days I hated it I had to write based on verbal specs and "let's see how that works." I once got reamed for pulling and reinserting a card in the wrong slot while testing diagnostics. I even despised one team leader. I also became bored., a common experience in industry after 5-7 yrs. What motivated me was not altruism or doing something no one else could, but making a living wage to support wife and kids. Without then I would probably be living at Venice Beach or scratching sand at Malibu until I got bored. I think for the most part, since you are on this website, you have the capability to achieve anything you want IFF you are willing to work. It comes from within. If a you want is amusement go to the beach.

 

[gary350]

Personally I don't know exactly why I want to learn programming. I am doing it anyway but my views on life are very dull and bland, I don't have any real interests besides basic human survival instincts which I think are where all my motivations stems from.

I am a young adult now but as a kid I use to be inspired by and motivated by movies I watched and games I played on PC. For example, when I watched Man vs Wild I use to be inspired and motivated to go out into my backyard and act like Bear Grylls surviving in the wild because I had a big backyard and space to do so, when it came to being inspired by games I use to learn and practice parkour in real life when I played Assassins Creed 2 on PC and could control the character do cool tricks,

I actually did well for someone my age learning how to parkour by myself. Now as an adult I had to deal with real life issues, one of them is taking antipsychotics and it making me not motivated to do anything and relying on cigarettes to get my dopamine fix so I feel at least happy smoking as opposed to miserable trying to accomplish tasks without smoking. Being on antipsychotics and dealing with it alone (But with God also I believe because I am a Christian) has opened my eyes in a way to harsh but true reality in that you learn that no one can help you but yourself in this world and it just sucks when all these fantasy ideas you build up are not actually how the world functions.

I guess that is part of growing up into a man from a boy but at least as a kid I had motivation to do stuff and it was really fun being motivated by fear and imagination to do things, something I wish I could still do... Also it's like people expect much more from you being an adult and sometimes you can't deliver at that deadline they expect you too...

So maybe my question is more like, how do you find motivation to do stuff when you are in a bad mood and if one of those things is programming, how do you push through to keep learning when you feel down and out some days...

I learned industrial programming for industrial controllers for machines & robots. Pay is very good $30 to $50 an hour many places. I spent 2 weeks playing with a controller making & testing programs until I learned how it worked. I learned the SLC150 about 25 years ago. Then I learned several other brand name controllers after that. I wrote programs on paper first them typed them into a computer then upload program from computer to the SLC. The first program was a challenge then each program after that was easy.

Programs are easy 30 to 50 lines most of the time. Most of the new equipment can store 100 programs. Each robot can do 100 different assembly line jobs just by selecting the program required for each job.

Once you learn this type programming you can make $2500 an hour going to factories that need you for a short 1 day job.

I have a grandson that is learning industrial SLC programming in trade school it is a 2 year degree. He can work at, Toyota, Nissan, VW, GMC, General motors, or any other automotive factory, Clark Industrial Equipment company, farm equipment, any industrial factory, even traffic light control. I did some traffic light control it is fun and very interesting. You have to count cars for 2 weeks on each street & each intersection 24 7 then work out the program for traffic flow at each traffic light in town. Those metal boxes you see at each traffic light has an SLC controller in there. If you program traffic lights you can work anywhere you want in the USA. Traffic usually needs to be 12 to 1 ratio or less before that intersection will have a traffic light.

Auto pilot on airplanes is also a programmable controllers. You can learn that at trade schools too.

Find a job you want then make it happen.

Get a job that won't go to china or India.

 

[yungman]

My 2cents worth.
Fortran as part of Eng Sci curriculum. After that programming was self taught due to necessity. APL for physics lab, assembly language for job advancement. I programmed early video games and was upset when they wanted me to write object motion using a table instead of math. My assembly lang. Skills got me another commercial job,then work in areospace programming assembly for an IBM 360 processor. Having established a good work reputation based in part on discipline from military service, I was given books on processor architecture and language and told to learn it and program it. Then came C, some self taught, some company classes, just enough to do the job, then ADA.

Some days I hated it I had to write based on verbal specs and "let's see how that works." I once got reamed for pulling and reinserting a card in the wrong slot while testing diagnostics. I even despised one team leader. I also became bored., a common experience in industry after 5-7 yrs. What motivated me was not altruism or doing something no one else could, but making a living wage to support wife and kids. Without then I would probably be living at Venice Beach or scratching sand at Malibu until I got bored. I think for the most part, since you are on this website, you have the capability to achieve anything you want IFF you are willing to work. It comes from within. If a you want is amusement go to the beach.

I miss the assembly language programming, the down to the bone programming. That's how I got started in my career. Funny you mention about Fortran. I said it a few times here my degree was Chemistry and I hated it, refused to work in the field, it's the one Fortran class that I was required in college that taught me how the computer think and made it very easy to learn assemble and microprocessor. I credit my career to that one class in fortran.

I kept my interest up by keep changing jobs in different area of electronics to learn. I started assembly language small test programs, change to processor controller design, then to high speed data acquisition(ADC), then design analog IC, then to design front end of Ultrasound medical imaging system, then to mass spectrometer where I stayed for 12 years. then venture out to SONET communication design and back to mass spectrometer type design. After I retired, I design very high end audiophile power amps till now. Never have a boring day in my career. Electronic is my passion. I am just taking a break and learn C++ right now as I am getting bore with the amp design. Only thing that I never get my hands in is design SMPS(switching power supply). I really can use that right now!

 

[yungman]

Ha ha, I am just not in studying mood, just feel like shooting the breeze. I finished 14 out of 15 chapter of the whole book, I am happy today! My little girl ( grand daughter) is coming over to stay with us for 2 weeks, I am stoked.

 

[John Kovach]

After thinking of my response and re-reading your comments, while wanting to earn a living wage did motivate me to seek employment, what kept me going was the challenge of programming new applications and learning new languages. I like to fix things and not everyone who programs understands hardware. My first job was not easy because I thought that if you get a degree, you are entitled to a good job. The treatment I received...well, I cried at work one day, then kept going. A degree opens the door, it gets you squat in terms of value.
I became a Christian and found opportunities in church to teach children. It helped me become a parent as most men are brain dead when they have their first child. There are so many problems out in the world, it is impossible for one person to solve them. Even programming is so diverse one has to specialize. And if the specialty does not appeal to you, slide into another. Video games are challenging, so is real life. I dropped out of college my first try. I joined the military, but after I was assigned a tech school and knew I had almost 4 more years of that crap, I asked myself, what did I do? The next 3+ years I took college courses and was determined that I was not going to pick up pine needles in the rain and run around a water tower because I broke formation to get a bug out of my ear ever again. I even dropped out of school a second time, after going to back to school, to get a job because I wanted to work. But without a 4 yr degree, work is not challenging, nor is the income adequate. So I returned to finish my last semester. I don't know a young person who really knows what field interests them. I've met many who change careers: a Chem E who became an orthopedic surgeon, nurses who decided later to become NPs, or a chiropractor who became an MD (2
PhD's and 8 years of graduate studies). Start somewhere and make a mark. And "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do; do it with thy might..." Eccl 9:10 KJV. You don't know where you will arrive until you get there.

 

[yungman]

Hi John
I totally agree that a lot of people doesn't know what they want in college and end up in totally different career from what their degree is. I am one of those as I said that my major is Chemistry. Maybe I was lucky that job market in electronics was hot in 1979. That time, I rather work as pizza delivery than to even sent out resume for Chemistry job. I was a musician, a guitarist and I was a good one. My goal was being a musician. But I had to get a job because it's not easy to make a career out of music, one out of a million are making millions, the rest can't even support themselves let alone the family. so I ask myself what do I want to do. I looked back to my childhood, I liked to tear down toys to see how they work, it was natural to me, so I got a field service job for Norelco dictating recorders. That exposed me to electronics. I fell in love with electronics, I studied so hard I got fired from the job. I then spent the next 3 months studying 18 hours a day and got my first real jobs in electronics and got myself in the door.

I never really have any formal education in electronics, I got an AA degree in a trade school after the fact. I moved up so fast, I only spent 9 months getting the AA degree, they let me skipped all the analog classes and just study digital and microprocessor classes to get the degree. By the time I graduated, I was promoted to EE already. From there onward, I totally self-study. Like you said, a degree just make it easy to get you into the door, after that, it means nothing. When I looked for a job, nobody ever asked me about my degree, they look at what I did, and more importantly, gave me test to see whether I can answer the questions.

When I hire people, they can say whatever they want, I gave them a test, if they couldn't pass the test, I don't even want to talk any more. At first when I hire technicians, I gave them a test that I learned from a book by Melvino that was used by the trade school. Everything was from that book they supposed to learn already. Nobody can answer and I need to help them to even complete the test. I'd take them if they can just answer with my help. Later on, when I needed to hire an engineer, I thought I gave the same test to them, that should be easy for them, just to screen out the ones that tried to fake it...NOT! Most couldn't answer. Like I said, I never have a degree in EE, I admired people with an EE degree, they must know a lot more than me.....NOT! Most don't know $hit. If you care to know what I used to test them, I posted in this thread a few months ago in post #25.
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-approach-should-be-used-when-solving-a-circuit.991072/
That's it, just that simple. very similar from the book used in Heald College in SF where I got my AA degree. It's more common sense question...AND you'd be surprised so many people don't have! If you want to, read the thread before post #25, I got into kind of heated debate about that. I don't need to repeat it here.

Problem is people that go to school don't get what the real life job is, they think what they learn in school is "it". I told people I hired that were straight out of school, first thing, forget what you learn in school. Real world working in the job is so different from what they learn from school some people never transition from school to job. You can see my comments in that thread if you are interested.

I think if you understand both software and hardware, it really give you big advantage in looking for a job. Here, most people seems to just into programming. In my career, I worked with so many programmer that worked closely with hardware. There is a huge job market for people like you that know a bit of both side. To me, that's where the fun is. I am learning C++ right now, I just feel it is so remote from the computer. There are and there will be jobs around that need knowledge of both hardware and software, it's just different from what people here are working on, like windows, apts and all that. It would be a big advantage if a programmer can pick up a scope probe and probe the circuit to test their signals from their program...Or an engineer/technician can write little test program to test their circuits.

Man, I am in yupping mode today, still have not got to the program I should be working on in another thread here! Just not in the mood. My little girl ( grand daughter) is coming tomorrow to stay with us, I have to cook tomorrow, then get ready for Christmas get together, it's going to be busy. I am glad I finished 14 of the total 15 chapters of the book.....I just can't help keep say this, I almost finish the whole book on C++! One more chapter to go! Very close to completing a milestone.

 

[kdmatsson]

My biggest motivation to learn programming came when I discovered the levels of freedom and capability that programming gave me. I now think of computer applications and systems in terms of logical processes involving 0s and 1s to which someone had beautifully orchestrated together. With all systems coming from that same foundational level, the possibilities are endless in terms of what I can create.

I had never felt any motivation or connection to programming before I got involved with C. I felt as though the syntax and process for building code were highly based on memorization and would require me to spend time remembering how to write a program rather than it making logical sense and being something I could mold and have control over. Clearly, I was wrong. learning C introduced me to a tool that I could use to do pretty much anything within its bounds and once I had memorized the different functions once, I could use them any way I wanted and they made complete sense to me.

I also think it's important to note that just like learning any new thing, beginning to program can be a frustrating experience for many. The way I kept my motivation through the initial hurdle was watching others program and explain why and how they were writing each small piece of code. Learning at a micro scale then slowly building up keeps me excited about my progress and reassured that eventually I would understand a lot more than I did.

 

[FactChecker]

I initially learned computer programming because my high school math teacher decided to teach it and then because my undergraduate college required that I pick a minor. Then it became part of my job. I had very little to do with the decisions. More to the point is the reason that I continued to program much later when many people would not have. I enjoyed automating a lot of the tedious computer tasks in my job. The Perl programming language made that easy. For instance, it allowed me to run thousands of test cases on weekends and overnight. That benefited everyone involved.

 

[harborsparrow]

I just can't help keep say this, I almost finish the whole book on C++! One more chapter to go! Very close to completing a milestone.

You go @yungman!

 

[yungman]

My biggest motivation to learn programming came when I discovered the levels of freedom and capability that programming gave me. I now think of computer applications and systems in terms of logical processes involving 0s and 1s to which someone had beautifully orchestrated together. With all systems coming from that same foundational level, the possibilities are endless in terms of what I can create.

I had never felt any motivation or connection to programming before I got involved with C. I felt as though the syntax and process for building code were highly based on memorization and would require me to spend time remembering how to write a program rather than it making logical sense and being something I could mold and have control over. Clearly, I was wrong. learning C introduced me to a tool that I could use to do pretty much anything within its bounds and once I had memorized the different functions once, I could use them any way I wanted and they made complete sense to me.

I also think it's important to note that just like learning any new thing, beginning to program can be a frustrating experience for many. The way I kept my motivation through the initial hurdle was watching others program and explain why and how they were writing each small piece of code. Learning at a micro scale then slowly building up keeps me excited about my progress and reassured that eventually I would understand a lot more than I did.

You hit right on the spot how I feel when I learn C++. When I was doing test programming with assembly, I felt connected to the computer, things made sense, I was in the driver seat how the process went. Learning C++ to me is all about remembering the syntax, remembering all the functions like all the overloading operators, each have their own requirements, the right hand side, the "this"...That you have to use cin.getline() for c-string, getline(cin...) for std::string. It's like it has it's own "language". If this is considered lower level language, I really wonder people that learn and program in higher level language really understand computer and how it works. There's a disconnect that I feel. I just don't feel the kind of excitement learning C++ as I was learning assembly those days. Problem is people make it up as they go, like there is straight restriction that nobody can touch the member data in the private part of the class...BUT, when it is inconvenient, they dream up a "friend" function or whatever they want to call to violate their own rules. Learning C++ is about learning their "rules". To me, this is NOT scientific, it's about following the rules they made up. It reminds me of the politicians during the pandemic, they made up the rules, but when it's not convenient, they break the rules.