What would be the limitations on an AC unit that worked like this?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter newtonian_fig
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Ac Unit
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical design of an air conditioning unit that utilizes a moving wall in a vacuum chamber to cool air. Participants explore the principles of cooling, efficiency, and the mechanics of existing AC systems, while also addressing related questions about energy transfer and entropy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a design involving a moving wall in a vacuum that cools air by reducing the kinetic energy of air particles that contact it.
  • Another participant questions the effectiveness of this design and suggests that it does not align with how standard AC units operate.
  • A later reply discusses the principle of an expanding chamber and suggests a design involving a piston to create cooler air through pressure changes.
  • One participant explains that the described mechanism resembles a reciprocating air compressor, noting that while it can function as an air conditioner, it is not efficient.
  • Another participant raises a theoretical question about the possibility of designing an AC unit that does not discharge warm air, linking it to concepts of entropy.
  • One response affirms the impossibility of such a design, emphasizing the necessity of moving heat from the cold side to the hot side of the AC unit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness and practicality of the proposed cooling mechanism. While some agree on the principles of cooling and energy transfer, there is no consensus on the feasibility of the initial design or the theoretical question regarding warm air discharge.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on the efficiency of the proposed designs, assumptions about energy transfer, and unresolved questions regarding the thermodynamic implications of the concepts discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in thermodynamics, engineering design, and the principles of air conditioning systems may find this discussion relevant.

newtonian_fig
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
The unit consists of a single, long rectangular chamber. On the inside is a moving wall. On one side of the wall is a vacuum, and the other side is room-temperature air. The moving wall starts much closer to the side with the air and moves slowly in the vacuum direction. As this happens, air particles that make contact with the moving wall will lose kinetic energy, and thus the temperature inside will be lowered.

I just realized as I'm writing this that I don't have a good way to bring the machine back to its starting state, but maybe one of you can come up with a method. Anyway, is this entire line of thinking silly? Would such a device cool the air significantly? I'm only a first year university student so go easy on me.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
It would not be effective. Do you know how a standard AC unit works?
 
I looked up the way a commercial AC unit works just before posting, and I know this method would not even come close to the current efficiency standard. I am more interested in the principle. Maybe I should have simply asked, would an expanding chamber cool the air inside it?

A similar question I had when thinking about this was why doesn't a fan warm the room, as it is adding kinetic energy to the system?
 
NewtonianFig said:
Maybe I should have simply asked, would an expanding chamber cool the air inside it?

Yes, such a design could be made to work. One possible design for such an air conditioner would be to start with a cylinder half-full of outside air and withdraw a piston, leaving the cylinder full of [roughly] half-pressure, cooler air.

Then use some sort of heat exchanger to let the room air lose heat into the cylinder air.

Let the piston fall back and now you have a cylinder [roughly] half full of warmer-than ambient air. Exhaust that to the outside and refill with outside air, taking the opportunity to move the piston the rest of the way to the original halfway mark.

Repeat as necessary.

You are using energy since the piston stroke takes more force and covers more distance on the cool-air pull than it gets back on the warm-air push. You are putting heat into the environment because you're taking in ambient temperature air and exhausting higher-than-ambient temperature air.

A similar question I had when thinking about this was why doesn't a fan warm the room, as it is adding kinetic energy to the system?

It does.
 
Last edited:
What you are describing is a normal reciprocating air compressor (you're just kinda describing it backwards). They do indeed work as functional air conditioners (heat pumps), just not very efficiently. However, this is actually similar to the technique used for cooling gas so far it liquefies.

When the air gets compressed, it gets hot. Water or air is circulated around the cylinders or air/tubing to cool the compressed air back down. Then the air gets expanded when you use it and it cools below ambient.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the answers jbriggs444 and russ_watters!

One more theoretical question for you guys: would it be possible to design an AC unit that doesn't need to discharge warm air? My gut says the answer is no because such a system would cause a reduction in entropy, but I want to know what you guys think.
 
You are correct. Another way to think about it is that you are moving heat, so you are moving it from the cold side to the hot side of the AC unit.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
6K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K