What Would the Circuit Diagram of a Square Inch of Air Look Like?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptualization of a circuit diagram for a cubic inch of air, exploring its electrical properties such as capacitance and breakdown voltage. Participants consider the implications of environmental factors like pressure, temperature, and humidity on these properties, as well as the challenges of modeling air in a circuit context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a cubic inch of air would have a certain amount of capacitance and proposes the idea of a large zener diode with a breakdown voltage set at the ionizing voltage of air.
  • Another participant questions whether the discussion should focus on a square inch or a cubic inch, clarifying that the latter is intended.
  • It is noted that the capacitance associated with air depends on the configuration of the capacitor plates, and the breakdown voltage is influenced by the shape of the electrodes.
  • A participant argues against the idea of air acting as a zener diode, stating that once an arc is established, the voltage between electrodes decreases significantly compared to the initial voltage required to create the arc.
  • Concerns are raised about the non-linear and high-order nature of air's electrical behavior, suggesting that modeling it accurately may be complex.
  • One participant references the relevance of this topic to companies that manufacture high voltage breakers and mentions arc fault studies as a related area of engineering that assesses electrical failures and safety measures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the electrical properties of air and the feasibility of modeling it as a circuit element. There is no consensus on how to accurately represent air in a circuit diagram, and the discussion remains open-ended with multiple perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of modeling air's electrical properties, including dependencies on environmental factors and the physical configuration of electrodes. There are indications that existing studies may provide insights, but specific references are not provided.

vivi-d
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Hello, as just a fun curiosity, I was pondering what the circuit diagram of a square inch of air would look like. I figured I would ask the folks here what you think it would look like...

I am thinking it would have a certain amount of capacitance, and maybe a very large zener with the breakdown voltage set at the ionizing voltage of air. What would it look like with variable caps or pots to account for pressure, temp, humidity?


Your thoughts are most appreciated :)
 
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A square inch? or do you mean a cubic inch between parallel plates that are 1" square ?
 
Sorry, yes I meant cubic inch.
 
There would definitely by some capacitance associated with air. However, this also depends on the capacitor plates. Also, the breakdown voltage of air will depend a bit on the shape of the electrodes. I don't think that air acts as a zener either. Once an arc is established the voltage between the electrodes is much less than what it took to establish the arc.
 
Also once an arc starts they tend to blow themselves out. Hot air rises and the ionized air tends to drift upwards and away.

It's probably difficult to model air exaclty. From a circuit standpoint it will no doubt be extremely non-linear and high order.

The kinds of questions your asking are probably of interest to companies that make high voltage breakers and other equipment for utility companies. If you dig deep enough there is probably a journal article somewhere for this topic.

Edit:

You might try looking into arc fault studies. This is a branch of engineering that estimates blast energies for various kinds of electrical failures. The general practice is to study a real service and determine how dangerous certain areas are so that maintenance workers are given the proper safety equipment to work in that area. At the end, an area is placed into one of 4 safety categories. A level 4 area requires that maintenance workers wear a full blast suit. The goal of this kind of engineering is to place equipment in a manner that reduces the number of level 4 areas and increases safety.

I was never in the department that did this so I don't know too much about it but I bet that somewhere in their data are studies of how circuits behave when they arc.
 
Last edited:
Thank you both very much!
 

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