What would the universe look like from the perspective of a photon observer?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the hypothetical perspective of a photon observer within the framework of Einstein's relativity. Participants explore the implications of such a perspective, questioning the nature of motion, time, and the validity of a frame of reference for a photon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that there is no valid frame of reference for a photon, as no observer can reach the speed of light, making the question inherently meaningless.
  • Others suggest that while the transformation equations of Special Relativity can be examined as velocity approaches c, the results become non-physical, such as time slowing to zero.
  • A participant emphasizes the impossibility of transitioning from sub-light speed to light speed, clarifying that this is a mathematical limit rather than a physical process.
  • Some contributions propose that if a photon were to have a perspective, it would not be able to perceive anything due to the cessation of time and the collapse of spatial dimensions.
  • One participant draws a parallel between the constancy of the speed of light and historical astronomical models, questioning whether our understanding of c might be subject to change or misinterpretation.
  • Another participant speculates about the possibility of alternative models where the speed of light is not constant, suggesting that such models could exist or have been attempted.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of a theory that violates Special Relativity, suggesting it would lead to contradictions in observational outcomes.
  • A participant poses challenges regarding the nature of photons, questioning whether they deserve a frame of reference and discussing the implications of energy transitioning from sub-c to c.
  • Some participants express that the inability of Special Relativity to fully account for photons may indicate incompleteness in the theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the validity of discussing a photon's perspective, with some asserting it is a meaningless question while others explore the implications and challenges it presents. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of light and the completeness of current theories.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of "observer" and the unresolved nature of the implications of photons within the framework of Special Relativity and General Relativity.

  • #31
There was a time when people a lot more qualified than me said the Earth was the only valid frame of reference. So the age of geocentricity was born. It started with Ptolemy (a most qualified and eminent scientist of the 2nd century A.D) and lasted for over 1500 years because everyone believed Ptolemy without question. It scares me when people are so sure of themselves and the status quo that they cannot afford to explore the places where conflictiing theories (GR and QM, for instance) might merge. Thank heaven Copernicus came along and dared to ask a question, to reach a little bit outside the box. Now I know I'm no Copernicus. In fact I would go so far as to say that I'm an idiot--a fool if you like. But I am wise enough to know that GR, SR and QM are missing something. Einstein, the author of GR knew that as well and I think he would object to your unquestioning, and wonder-crushing self assuredness. He would encourage me to keep asking questions and to keep up the search for the truth. I don't pretend to think I will be the one to find missing truth. But I'll certainly continue to have fun looking.
 
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  • #32
I see someone beat me to locking this thread. Let me point out, that we are not attempting to push the state of the art here at PF, and that this is mentioned in our guidelines, which I encourage people to read (click on 'rules'). People with personal theories to discuss need to find another forum, we are interested in explaining physics as it is currently understood to a general audience here, and not in pushing the state of the art or providing a soapbox for everyone with some pet personal theory.

Unfortunately, advancing the state of the art of physics is not as easy as it might appear to someone who lacks expertise in the field. Unfortunately, not only do grandiose proposals generally fail when subjected to close scrutiny, they are rarely even original :-(.
 

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