What would the world be like if c→∞ and h=0?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the hypothetical implications of a universe where the speed of light is infinite and the Planck constant is zero, leading to a completely Newtonian framework. Participants examine the theoretical consequences of such a scenario, including the stability of atoms and the behavior of energy and thermal equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that in a world with c→∞ and h=0, all atoms would be unstable, resulting in the absence of matter as we know it.
  • Others argue that even if the instability of atoms could be circumvented, objects would radiate unlimited energy and would not reach thermal equilibrium with their surroundings.
  • A later reply suggests that perhaps only setting h=0 might be sufficient to create these problems, while c could be taken to infinity without affecting certain quantum electrodynamics (QED) experiments.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the chiral fermion problem, indicating uncertainty about the implications of taking c to infinity in that context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of viewpoints regarding the implications of the proposed scenario, with no consensus reached on the specific outcomes or the feasibility of certain assumptions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the full implications of setting c to infinity and h to zero, particularly regarding the stability of matter and the behavior of energy in such a universe.

GW150914
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What would the world be like if the speed of light is infinity and the Planck constant is zero (therefore the world is totally Newtonian)?
 
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As you say, totally Newtonian.
 
In that world, several things would happen that don't happen in the real world that we live in:
- All atoms would be unstable, so there would be no matter as we know it.
- Even if there was some way of getting around that unstable atom problem, objects would radiate unlimited amounts of energy and would never come into thermal equilibrium with their surroundings.
...
And so on, through a long litany of problems.

The physicists of the early twentieth century didn't invent relativity and quantum mechanics because they were sadistic and wished to inflict pain on future generations of physics students. They invented relativity and quantum mechanics because (although it works really well in many areas) classical Newtonian mechanics doesn't completely explain the universe we live in.
 
Nugatory said:
In that world, several things would happen that don't happen in the real world that we live in:
- All atoms would be unstable, so there would be no matter as we know it.
- Even if there was some way of getting around that unstable atom problem, objects would radiate unlimited amounts of energy and would never come into thermal equilibrium with their surroundings.
...
And so on, through a long litany of problems.

Perhaps for these problems we only need h=0. I think for QED one can safely take c to infinity, since lattice QED with small enough spacing should be compatible with all QED experiments. I think the chiral fermion problem is one issue about which we don't yet know whether it is safe to take c to infinitity.
 

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