When I jump up and down what is the Einsteinian way to describe it?

[ESponge2000]

The mathematical foundation to follow the answers you get, I suspect.

There are no timelike or null paths leading out of a black hole. It has nothing to do with acceleration. All possible paths anything can follow terminate on the singularity.

Similarly, there can be no "perspective" of something travelling faster than light because you'd require a timelike axis to be spacelike. It's a contradiction in terms.

Will this appear to a traveler past the event horizon much like if the singularity contains an elephant, an elephant will display in each and every direction for them and the gray elephant perimeter converging in on a shimmering point ?

 

[Ibix]

Will this appear to a traveler past the event horizon much like if the singularity contains an elephant, an elephant will display in each and every direction for them and the gray elephant perimeter converging in on a shimmering point ?

No. The singularity is a point in time. Asking what it looks like is like asking what Monday morning looks like frim Sunday.

 

[jbriggs444]

That is to say the rate at which spacetime is being distorted results in there not being a path for anything to connect in the reverse direction

You cannot distort spacetime over time because time is already part of spacetime. There is no separate "hyper time" over which a spacetime can evolve.

We view spacetime as a four dimensional whole. Not as a continuous evolution of three dimensional spatial slices. The curvature is a property of the spacetime, not [merely] of the slices.

Will this appear to a traveler past the event horizon much like if the singularity contains an elephant, an elephant will display in each and every direction for them?

This appears to ask about the visual image that a free falling traveler would see when looking "toward the singularity".

I am no expert, but the best answer I can come up with would be "what do you see when you look toward tomorrow?".

 

[ESponge2000]

I still can’t wrap my head around it. I can’t see 4–dimensionally very well. I can imagine bending of space but bending of spacetime for me and maybe for physicists I Don’t know, is applying formulas and studying terminology that is tested , understanding it visually is very challenging

 

[jbriggs444]

I still can’t wrap my head around it. I can’t see 4–dimensionally very well. I can imagine bending of space but bending of spacetime for me and maybe for physicists I Don’t know, is applying formulas and studying terminology that is tested , understanding it visually is very challenging

You should not expect to understand it intuitively. Homo Sapiens has evolved in a low energy, low gravity environment where Newtonian mechanics and Euclidean geometry serve as a very accurate model. Our intuitions are trained in this environment.

Trying to carry those pre-relativistic intuitions over into a high energy, high gravity environment is not reasonable. Many of our common sense intuitions must simply be discarded. Or retrained using textbooks and instructors. There is, for most of us, simply no magic trick or gimmick to gaining an immediate and perfect understanding of the stuff. That's why we have schools and classes.

 

[PeterDonis]

My current thinking is what is perceived to be above c is a bending of spacetime itself upon which nothing actually travels through

Wrong.

What we mean is space itself , take a very very very small particle of space

Word salad.

its place with respect to the center of the black hole

The black hole has no center. I've already said this.

If staying in the particle you are in a 0 acceleration

I have no idea what you mean by this.

a particle of space

What does this even mean?

The structure of how space is connected to space is In distortion due to the mass of the black hole , is this correct ?

It's not even wrong.

All things including light travel through space in accordance with the structure of spacetime

No, they travel through spacetime in accordance with the structure (geometry) of spacetime.

and can’t do anything about its curvature which is only something mass naturally does

Light has energy, so it can cause spacetime curvature. "Mass" is not the only thing that does that.

that’s my current thinking and maybe I have it wrong.

Your current thinking is not even wrong.

am I close or way off?

I can't even make sense of your "illustration".

 

[PeterDonis]

Thread closed for moderation.

 

[Dale]

In other words there’s no practical way to show over a longterm, a change in position in the universe due to constant force

If you accelerate at a constant proper acceleration of 1 g for more than about a month, then you will start to need to use relativity.

Here is a page on that topic

https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/Rocket/rocket.html

what is the lowest meters per second squared that leads to having an escape velocity above c?

There is none. It doesn’t matter how hard you accelerate, nor for how long you accelerate, you can never reach the speed of light because you have mass.

In spacetime a small object is described by a worldline. For example, the orange lines on the drawings I posted. Proper acceleration is how tightly the worldline bends. For example, in the first drawing, at the beginning the worldline is gradually curved and at the end also. These are the times when the accelerometer reads a nice steady 1 g upwards. While they are in the air, their accelerometer reads 0 proper acceleration, so the worldline is not curved at all. And there are sharp curves corresponding to the sudden high proper accelerations at jumping and landing.

But the geometry in spacetime is not Euclidean like the paper. No matter how sharply your worldline bends, it can never turn past the angle that $c$ makes on the diagram

 

[Dale]

I still can’t wrap my head around it. I can’t see 4–dimensionally very well.

I would recommend getting some experience reading and drawing spacetime diagrams for flat spacetime first. Once you are comfortable with flat spacetime then you can start thinking about black holes and curved spacetime

 

[PeterDonis]

After moderator review, the thread will remain closed. Thanks to all who participated.