When to use HYBRIdiZED ORBITAL?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of hybridized orbitals in molecular bonding, specifically questioning when hybridization is necessary. Participants explore examples such as PH3, NH3, and carbon compounds, considering both theoretical and practical implications of hybridization in valence bond theory.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that hybridized orbitals are unnecessary for PH3, suggesting it can be adequately described using the valence shell method.
  • Others propose that hybridization is essential for tetravalent carbon to achieve four equivalent bonds, while molecules like NH3 and H2O can be described using only p-orbitals.
  • A participant asserts that the classical Lewis structure does not accurately represent bonding at the quantum level, noting that bond angles differ from the expected 90 degrees.
  • Another participant counters that the deviation from 90 degrees does not necessitate hybrid orbitals, particularly in PH3, where the orbital radii of s and p orbitals are significantly different.
  • There is confusion among participants regarding the necessity of hybrid orbitals for PH3, with some referencing external sources that suggest hybridization while others maintain it is not required.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether hybridized orbitals are necessary for PH3, with multiple competing views presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and applicability of hybridization in different molecular contexts, particularly in relation to bond angles and orbital characteristics.

kougou
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Hi.

I am wondering when should we use hybridized orbital?
For PH3, we don't use hybridized orbital because it could be described by the valence shell method.
The valence shell orbital diagram:
p: [Ne] 3s:up down 3p: up up up

And we have 3 up. so the 3 extra electrons from hydrogen could fit into there. Therefore we don't need hybridized orbital.
But when do we need it?
 
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You most need it in the case of tetravalent carbon to get four equivalent bonds using valence bond theory. Most other molecules like NH3, H2O etc. can be described well using only their p-orbitals in bonding.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
kougou said:
Hi.

I am wondering when should we use hybridized orbital?
For PH3, we don't use hybridized orbital because it could be described by the valence shell method.
The valence shell orbital diagram:
p: [Ne] 3s:up down 3p: up up up

And we have 3 up. so the 3 extra electrons from hydrogen could fit into there. Therefore we don't need hybridized orbital.
But when do we need it?

Surely we do need hybridized orbitals. The classical Lewis structure is not true at quantum level, the bonding angle between the overlapping electronic probability clouds is not 90deg as predicted by the classical Lewis structure, but approx. 107deg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigonal_pyramidal_molecular_geometry
 
dextercioby said:
Surely we do need hybridized orbitals. The classical Lewis structure is not true at quantum level, the bonding angle between the overlapping electronic probability clouds is not 90deg as predicted by the classical Lewis structure, but approx. 107deg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigonal_pyramidal_molecular_geometry

That the angle is off from 90 deg, does not mean that you have to use hybrid orbitals, especially in molecules like PH3 where the radii of the s and p orbitals on Phosphorus are too different to make useful hybrids. The bond angle in PH3 is only 93.5 deg.
 
DrDu said:
That the angle is off from 90 deg, does not mean that you have to use hybrid orbitals, especially in molecules like PH3 where the radii of the s and p orbitals on Phosphorus are too different to make useful hybrids. The bond angle in PH3 is only 93.5 deg.


Hi. I just googled it. Most ppl from the web said for PH3, you will have sp3 hybri orbital, but then from the text, it clearly identify that it doesn't need to use hybri orbital.
So, what do you think?

Can I go wrong if I assume everything will use hybri orbital?
 
kougou said:
Hi. I just googled it.

Then why do you ask?
 
DrDu said:
Then why do you ask?

No. I mean. I still unclear whether it should use hybri or not.
The text says no.
Other ppl say yes.
 
People may say whatever they want. I would go for a textbook over some 'hearsay' on the (free) internet. :rolleyes:

And please, make an effort to write <people>.
 

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