Where Did I Go Wrong with My Hydraulic Car Lift Plot?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem involving a hydraulic car lift, specifically focusing on determining the force in the hydraulic actuator as a function of the angle θ and the weight of the vehicle. Participants are attempting to generate a plot of the ratio of actuator force to vehicle weight as a function of θ within a specified range, while addressing issues encountered in their calculations and plotting methods.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the homework statement and their approach to solving for the actuator force and generating a plot.
  • Several participants discuss the relationships between angles and forces, specifically referencing equations involving sin(φ), sin(θ), and the geometry of the lift.
  • There are multiple suggestions on how to rearrange equations to isolate sin(φ) and subsequently use it in the ratio F/W = cos(θ)/sin(φ).
  • One participant expresses confusion about the plotting results in Excel, noting that the expected curve is not appearing and instead shows an up-and-down line.
  • Another participant mentions the importance of ensuring calculations are in radians when using Excel, indicating a potential source of error in the plotting process.
  • There is a mention of a participant being stuck on a related problem, indicating that the discussion may involve multiple interconnected issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods and approaches to the problem, but there is no consensus on the correct method for plotting or the interpretation of the equations. Some participants agree on certain equations but differ on how to apply them in Excel or the implications of their results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with the assumptions made in their calculations, particularly regarding the geometry of the lift and the dependencies of the angles involved. There are also unresolved questions about the correct application of trigonometric functions in their Excel formulas.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students working on similar physics problems involving hydraulic systems, trigonometric relationships in mechanics, or those seeking assistance with plotting data in Excel.

pHysicsN0OB
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My plot didn't come out correctly, so I know I did it wrong. Where did I go wrong or was I even close?

1. Homework Statement

The hydraulic car lift shown in Fig 1 will be used to lift a vehicle of weight W. Determine the force in the hydraulic actuator required support the vehicle as a function of angle θ and the weight of the vehicle, W. Neglect the weight of the components of the lift as they will be negligible with respect to the weight of the vehicle. Assume that the weight of the vehicle is centered between points B and C.

Generate a plot of the ratio of actuator force to vehicle weight (F(actuator)/W) as a function of θ in the range 5 ≤ θ ≤ 60 degrees. If the maximum force the actuator can apply is 24 kip, determine the minimum value of θ that a 4,000 lb vehicle can be lifted from.

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The attempt at a solution
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sinφ/5 = sinθ/A is good. F/W = cos θ/sinφ is good. What's sinφ?
 
Bystander said:
sinφ/5 = sinθ/A is good. F/W = cos θ/sinφ is good. What's sinφ?

I'm suppose to plug all of this into excel and make a plot with a line curving with θ being between 5 ≤ θ ≤ 60 degrees.

My idea was this:
Plug in θ and get A
A^2=2^2+5^2-2(2)(5)cosθ

Then I'll plug in both θ and A to get Phi.
φ=arcsin[(5sin(θ)/A)]

Then I'll plug θ and φ
F/W = cos θ/sinφ

But when I do that on excel, I don't get a curved line. I get more of an up and down line.

This is what I used in the cells with A2:A57 having the numbers 5 through 60.
=sqrt(2^2+5^2-2*2*5*COS(A2*(180/PI())))
=ASIN((5*SIN(A2*(180/PI())))/B2)
=COS(A2)/SIN(C2)
 
You've already solved for sin(phi) in terms of theta ---

Bystander said:
sinφ/5 = sinθ/A is good.

you don't have to go 'round Robin Hood's Barn to get it ---

pHysicsN0OB said:
My idea was this:
Plug in θ and get A
A^2=2^2+5^2-2(2)(5)cosθ

Then I'll plug in both θ and A to get Phi.
φ=arcsin[(5sin(θ)/A)]

Then I'll plug θ and φ
F/W = cos θ/sinφ
(that ain't quite the green of Sherwood Forest, but it'll do) --- forget this --- take what you've already done, substitute for sin(phi), and do the plot --- you'll even know what the shape is supposed to be --- it's a recognizable function.
 
You mean just go directly with F/W = cos θ/sinφ and leave out this...

Plug in θ and get A
A^2=2^2+5^2-2(2)(5)cosθ
Then I'll plug in both θ and A to get Phi.
φ=arcsin[(5sin(θ)/A)]

If so, where would I get phi from if I'm only starting with θ?
 
Rearrange the first equation, sinφ/5 = sinθ/A to isolate sin(phi) --- plug that into F/W = cos(theta)/sin(phi).
 
Bystander said:
Rearrange the first equation, sinφ/5 = sinθ/A to isolate sin(phi) --- plug that into F/W = cos(theta)/sin(phi).

That's what I did.
Rearrange the first equation
A=sqrt(2^2+5^2-2(2)(5)cosθ)

sinφ/5 = sinθ/A to isolate sin(phi)
φ=arcsin[(5sin(θ)/A)]
should there be a parenthesis between 5 and sin?

plug that into F/W = cos(theta)/sin(phi)

F/W = cosθ/sinφ

Unless I'm typing it wrong in excel
A2=5
B2=sqrt(2^2+5^2-2*2*5*COS(A2*(180/PI())))
C2=ASIN((5*SIN(A2*(180/PI())))/B2) should there be a parenthesis between 5 and sin?
D2=COS(A2)/SIN(C2)
 
sin(phi) = (1/5A) sin(theta); F/W = 5A cot(theta).
 
I am also stuck on this problem. :( And I am confused why you say that Fcx = 0 for either diagram Fb has an x force and Ex does too. Or maybe I am too tired to think straight.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Did you know that anytime you put something into excel it puts you into radians mode? Opps! I did see that you made that correction for Excel. sorry.
 
Last edited:
  • #11
Bystander said:
sin(phi) = (1/5A) sin(theta); F/W = 5A cot(theta).

I tried 3 ways and I still don't get a good curve.
cppp.png
 

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