News Who Was the Most Controversial U.S. President?

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The discussion centers around opinions on the worst U.S. presidents, with Richard Nixon frequently nominated due to his involvement in the Watergate scandal and perceived incompetence. Other candidates mentioned include Herbert Hoover, criticized for his handling of the Great Depression, and Ronald Reagan, whose foreign policy and economic decisions are debated. Some participants argue for the inclusion of presidents like Woodrow Wilson and Warren Harding, with Harding often cited as one of the worst due to scandals and lack of significant accomplishments. The conversation also touches on the controversial decisions of Harry Truman, particularly regarding the atomic bombings in Japan, with some defending his actions as a necessary evil to end the war. Overall, the thread reflects a mix of historical analysis and personal opinions, highlighting the complexities of evaluating presidential legacies.

Worst US President of the 21th century

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cronxeh
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Who do you think was the worst past US President, and why? I personally nominate Richard Nixon, because, well because he was an idiot in almost everything he did.
 
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FDR for the New Deal...
 
Worst President of the 21th century?

And I'm pretty sure... depending on what century you're talking about, have far too few names or far too many names.
 
From the choices available, if you had to pick

Oh and 20th century of course :biggrin:
 
Well I really don't know anything about Taft or Wilson so I'm not sure what to say
 
How on Earth did you decide to put Truman, Taft, and Wilson on there? Did you just decide to pull names out of a hat?
 
Where's Hoover? Where's Reagan?
 
rachmaninoff said:
Where's Hoover? Where's Reagan?

I think he put all the names in a hat and just pulled 6 out
 
I'm stuck between Hoover and Reagan... Okay Reagan's bad but you can't beat Hoover in Badness.

Too bad theír not on the list.

(who the **** is "taft")
 
  • #10
Definitely not Wilson, that guy was a hero. He could've done so much good for the world if congress hadn't been against him.
 
  • #11
Well Reagan I'm impartial to because of his work on collapse of USSR, and he deserves respect for that. Truman for nuking Japan.
 
  • #13
Yeah Wilson should be replaced with Hoover. What about Andrew Johnson?

edit.. Taft was president right after TR, I think 1904/1908. I can't remember him doing too much, but I know TR was disappointed with him and decided to run against him the following term, that is when Wilson came in, must have been 1912 then.
 
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  • #14
Truman for bombing Japan.
 
  • #15
Entropy said:
Truman for bombing Japan.
Well, the atomic bombs obviously weren't a good thing, but Truman certainly didn't take it lightly. It came down to two choices: either fire-bomb Tokyo (which would have killed 200K civilians per month) or drop the atomic bomb. When all radiation deaths are included, the two bombs killed fewer than that number of people, so if the war hadn't ended within the month, then there would have been more deaths (not even including military deaths). Was it an evil? Yes. Was it the lesser of the two evils? Probably.
 
  • #16
Well, the atomic bombs obviously weren't a good thing, but Truman certainly didn't take it lightly. It came down to two choices: either fire-bomb Tokyo (which would have killed 200K civilians per month) or drop the atomic bomb. When all radiation deaths are included, the two bombs killed fewer than that number of people, so if the war hadn't ended within the month, then there would have been more deaths (not even including military deaths). Was it an evil? Yes. Was it the lesser of the two evils? Probably.

Or just have done nothing. Japan's navy was gone and its forces shattered. Maybe they weren't a threat anymore?
 
  • #17
I know how to settle this. Pro's and Con's.
Truman
Pros:
Marshall Plan
Supported United Nations
Fair Deal*
Executive Order 9981
Cons:
A-Bomb
Second Red Scare
Truman Doctrine
Hydrogen Bomb

0

Johnson
Pros
Great Society
War on Poverty*
Equal Opportunity Act
Cons
Escalation of Vietnam
Dealing with MFDP

+1

Nixon
Pros
Space shuttle program
China Card - SALT I
EPA
NOAA
MBDA
SSI
Détente
Cons
Watergate
DEA

+5

I think there's something wrong with my system.
Truman wins.

*I admit degrees of ignorance for these programs
 
  • #18
Townsend said:
FDR for the New Deal...
Of the available choices I would have thought you would pick Taft. He was President when the 16th (income tax) amendment was passed.
 
  • #19
Wilson would be in my top 5. I probably would have said Andrew Johnson.
 
  • #20
Skyhunter said:
Of the available choices I would have thought you would pick Taft. He was President when the 16th (income tax) amendment was passed.

When I posted that there were no choices listed, just the question of who was the worst US president. So I said FDR...

I suppose from the choices that Taft is my pick for the worst just because of 16th amendment but I do appericate the fact that he established Yellow Stone National Park..:smile:
 
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  • #21
russ_watters said:
Wilson would be in my top 5. I probably would have said Andrew Johnson.
is that a best list or a worst list?
 
  • #22
motai said:
The White House had to install a new bathtub for him...

How is this a bad thing :biggrin: :biggrin:
 
  • #23
I just know 1 president of 21th century and he's Bush! :confused: But if you're asking about 20th century, all of them! :rolleyes:
 
  • #24
I voted Johnson thinking that was Andrew on the list...only after reading Smurf's post did I realize it might as easily be referring to Lyndon.
 
  • #25
I didn't even think of Andrew... he wasn't in the 20th century though was he?
 
  • #26
Townsend said:
When I posted that there were no choices listed, just the question of who was the worst US president. So I said FDR...

I suppose from the choices that Taft is my pick for the worst just because of 16th amendment but I do appericate the fact that he established Yellow Stone National Park..:smile:
Ulysses S. Grant was President when Yellow Stone National Park was established.

By Act of March 1, 1872, Congress established Yellowstone National Park in the Territories of Montana and Wyoming "as a public park or pleasuring ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people" and placed it "under exclusive control of the Secretary of the Interior." The founding of Yellowstone National Park began a worldwide national park movement. Today more than 100 nations contain some 1,200 national parks or equivalent preserves.

And Woodrow Wilson was the President who signed th act creating the National Park Service. So you can pick Taft as the worst President without any reservations.:smile:
 
  • #27
Smurf said:
I didn't even think of Andrew... he wasn't in the 20th century though was he?
He was Lincoln's Vice President.
 
  • #28
Skyhunter said:
He was Lincoln's Vice President.
... that's a "no" then right? Lincoln was like 18-something something.
 
  • #29
Smurf said:
I didn't even think of Andrew... he wasn't in the 20th century though was he?
You're right. He was 1865-1869.
PS someone please edit the poll question!
 
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  • #30
Any good US presidents? Or are you all just anti-US?
 
  • #31
deckart said:
Any good US presidents? Or are you all just anti-US?

The poll is about who the worst out of 5 particular are
 
  • #32
Or just have done nothing. Japan's navy was gone and its forces shattered. Maybe they weren't a threat anymore?

I actually aggree that Truman had no option, if he didnt drop 'em Japan wouldn't have given up.. And a LOT more blood would have been spilt on both sides... So it was the lesser of two evils

Any good US presidents? Or are you all just anti-US?

yeh Clinton... haha
 
  • #33
Oh god is this thread going to turn into another one of those Japan/nuke threads.

Just go ask Germany how Soviet occupation felt, end of discussion.
 
  • #34
Just go ask Germany how Soviet occupation felt, end of discussion.

Becuase Japan were communists and were going to invade china and create the People Republic of China...
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:
 
  • #35
Anttech said:
Becuase Japan were communists and were going to invade china and create the People Republic of China...
:smile: :smile: :smile: :smile: :smile:

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying the Soviet Union didn't declare war on Japan and wasn't attempting to move troops into it?
 
  • #36
Well if are linking Truman to dropping the bomb on Japan and stopping stalin taking Japan, then it won't make sence... I find that link hard to believe
 
  • #37
Anttech said:
Well if are linking Truman to dropping the bomb on Japan and stopping stalin taking Japan, then it won't make sence... I find that link hard to believe

I don't see how anyone can miss the link. The soviets were going to invade, US wanted the spoils of war, nuke = immediate end to hostilities which allowed the US to bring in people before the soviets could. Otherwise, the soviets could come in, "meet the allies", and you have the same thing that happened in Germany. Obvious link.

Now as to whether this makes him a good president or not, there is no link. Good military/diplomatic strategy... but it was 1 decision out of an entire presidency worth of stuff. Maybe that is what you're talking about.
 
  • #38
I don't see how anyone can miss the link. The soviets were going to invade, US wanted the spoils of war, nuke = immediate end to hostilities which allowed the US to bring in people before the soviets could. Otherwise, the soviets could come in, "meet the allies", and you have the same thing that happened in Germany. Obvious link.

I never made that Link... The reason I believe that Truman dropped the bomb is becuase he knew he would win, but the Japanese wouldn't have surrendered easy. He calculated that it would take Millions of Allied and Japanese lifes to stop the conflict. Dropping the Bombs ensured that far less life’s would be lost... Imagine the carnage (on both sides)if the allies stormed the beaches
 
  • #39
Anttech said:
I never made that Link... The reason I believe that Truman dropped the bomb is becuase he knew he would win, but the Japanese wouldn't have surrendered easy. He calculated that it would take Millions of Allied and Japanese lifes to stop the conflict. Dropping the Bombs ensured that far less life’s would be lost... Imagine the carnage (on both sides)if the allies stormed the beaches

Oh of course, I just didn't want to bring that up because in previous discussions, there was a looooooot of people who got pissed off at that kind of reasoning. None of them brought up any actual factual information to support it except for one guy who went "according to one little known and rarely-publicized guy from Canada (or something), Japan was going to surrender within a few days". Never found out who this guy was but that was his reasoning that supposedly trumped all historians views.
 
  • #40
Pengwuino said:
Oh god is this thread going to turn into another one of those Japan/nuke threads.

Just go ask Germany how Soviet occupation felt, end of discussion.

I don't think this sort of thing should ever be forgotten, especially considering it was done twice on two separate days
 
  • #41
Harding was, by far, the worst president of the 20th century. He wasn't responsible for anything historic except for the Teapot Dome scandal, but that's just pure luck. The guy makes Bush look like the president of Mensa.
 
  • #42
  • #43
Skyhunter said:
Ulysses S. Grant was President when Yellow Stone National Park was established.


That's strange...someone needs to edit wiki then.

Taft fought for prosecution of trusts, further strengthened the Interstate Commerce Commission, established Yellowstone National park, established a postal savings bank and a parcel post system, expanded the civil service and sponsored the enactment of two amendments to the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Taft

But thanks for the correction
 
  • #44
jimmysnyder said:
http://www.americanpresident.org/history/warrenharding/

I have no idea how they came by this piece of intelligence.

Perhaps we can use smurf's system to evaluate Harding:

Pros
  • Nice guy
Cons
  • Gambled away the White House China
  • Admitted he was in over his head after being elected
  • Had numerous appointees convicted of defrauding the US government
  • Teapot Dome
  • Was such a bad speaker that every president since has employed a professional speech writer
  • Had two known extramarital affairs while in office
  • Was probably the president who first allowed big oil to control US foreign policy
  • Was responsible for the rise of both Coolidge and Hoover
  • Was probably poisoned by his own wife

Score

-8
 
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  • #45
Having to resign because of Watergate pretty much clinches the worst spot for Nixon. If he hadn't been so paranoid (or at least surrounded by an unbalanced campaign staff), he would have won re-election easily and would have ranked towards the top of any list of presidents.

Of the choices given, Taft would be lowest in effectiveness.

Truman (and continued by Eisenhower) helped Europe recover from WWII. Johnson turned all those platitudes voiced by Kennedy into reality. Wilson wasn't successful in his League of Nations efforts, but I think his efforts did lay the groundwork for the United Nations to somewhat work.

Taft was thoroughly forgettable (as Ford and Carter will be).
 
  • #46
  • #47
loseyourname said:
Perhaps we can use smurf's system to evaluate Harding:

Pros
  • Nice guy
Cons
  • Gambled away the White House China
  • Admitted he was in over his head after being elected
  • Had numerous appointees convicted of defrauding the US government
  • Teapot Dome
  • Was such a bad speaker that every president since has employed a professional speech writer
  • Had two known extramarital affairs while in office
  • Was probably the president who first allowed big oil to control US foreign policy
  • Was responsible for the rise of both Coolidge and Hoover
  • Was probably poisoned by his own wife

Score

-8
He was also known as quite a womanizer. In fact one of his bastards is the father of my chiropractor.

I was watching a conference of historians last year on C-SPAN where they were actually revising his standing as worst president in history, using the standard of "harm to the Union" as a measure.
 
  • #48
loseyourname said:
Perhaps we can use smurf's system to evaluate Harding
I meant I don't know how they found out what 'most historians' regard.
 
  • #49
Smurf said:
is that a best list or a worst list?
[re: Wilson being in the top 5] Top 5 would be best...
 
  • #50
jimmysnyder said:
I meant I don't know how they found out what 'most historians' regard.
Maybe most historians use my system. :biggrin:
I mean, from that it's pretty obvious he was a dink.

Edit: Although I don't see how getting poisoned by his wife makes him a bad guy.
 
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