LaTeX Why are MathJax images not displaying on my webpage?

[dlgoff]

I bet it would cause a lot of casual and new members a lot of grief at first. \$ is not intuitive :)

Well, I hope it doesn't effect the $ sign here: https://www.physicsforums.com/payments.php"

 

[Redbelly98]

I suggest

$f$ as an alternative to [itεx]f[/itεx]

$$f$$ as an alternative to [tεx]f[/tεx]

(I couldn't figure out how Borek did his magic so I just wrote ε instead of e to let you see what I wrote).

That first one might break a few old posts, but it still think it's the best option, since it's easy to type, and also what you actually type in a LaTeX document.

Yes, but this is a physics and math forum, not a forum for American accountants. I'm assuming that they can write something like \$3.50 instead of $3.50, and if that doesn't work, they can always write 3.50 USD.

(I'm not saying that I would find other options intolerable, only that I still like my suggestion best).

I think using $ would break too many old posts. Even though we're primarily a science/math/engineering forum, the Politics and World Affairs area (for example) is and has been quite active at PF. A double $$ would be much better as a LaTeX delimiter.

 

[AlephZero]

As I see it, a key design feature of the current interface (whether or not it was planned that way or "just growed") is that if you don't even know LaTeX exists, you can type text and get what you expect.

Moving away from that principle on any "general access" web forum, is a BIG strategic decision to take IMO. That certainly rules out $ as a delimeter, and probably $$ as well.

BLEH! I just tried a search to see how many posts already used $$, and the answer was

1. Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.
The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search : $$

 

[Fredrik]

I can certainly see your point and to some extent I agree with it. Not so much that I have changed my mind, but enough to start thinking about other options. How about ££math££ for inline, and $$math$$ for displaystyle?

Not sure where these symbols are on keyboards in other countries. On a Swedish keyboard, the pound sign is Alt Gr+3 and the dollar sign is Alt Gr+4, so both are easy to type.

Or how about not introducing new delimiters and instead configuring hotkeys that type the delimiters automatically. For example, right now, if I press Alt Gr+i, the computer types [noparse] and puts the cursor between and , and if I highlight a word before I press Alt Gr+i, the and the are inserted before and after that word. Is it possible to e.g. configure F8 and F9 to do that with itex and tex tags?[/noparse]

 

[Redbelly98]

U.S. keyboards do not have £, at least that is true for PC's. $ is <shift>4

Fredrik, I'm not sure what this Gr key is. We normally use Shift, Ctrl, or Alt to change the character or function of other keys.

 

[vela]

MathJax supports multiple pairs of delimiters, so it doesn't need to be one size fits all. You could have one set that's easy to type on US keyboards, and another set that's easy to type on non-US keyboards.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

What about a double pound sign? Is that ever used in anything?

fyi, if by this weekend we haven't encountered any big problems with the MathJax setup, I will turn the old system off (images are still being generated in case we switch back)

 

[Borek]

Opera still stumbles now and then.

That's not to say you shouldn't switch, you just asked earlier...

 

[Fredrik]

Fredrik, I'm not sure what this Gr key is. We normally use Shift, Ctrl, or Alt to change the character or function of other keys.

Alt Gr is the key to the right of the space bar on my keyboard.

MathJax supports multiple pairs of delimiters, so it doesn't need to be one size fits all. You could have one set that's easy to type on US keyboards, and another set that's easy to type on non-US keyboards.

Good point.

 

[Fredrik]

I've been looking at the keyboard layout page at Wikipedia. It seems to me that almost everyone would find it easy to type the delimiters if we choose

££math££, $math$, §§math§§ and ··math·· for inline (i.e. itex)
$$math$$ and ¢¢math¢¢ for displaystyle (i.e. tex)

I would say that the §,· and ¢ characters aren't really necessary. They are just a minor improvement for Germans, Spaniards, and French Canadians respectively.

 

[tiny-tim]

££math££, $math$, §§math§§ and ··math·· for inline (i.e. itex)
$$math$$ and ¢¢math¢¢ for displaystyle (i.e. tex)

almost every keyboard has $, and either £ € or ¢ next to it,

so how about $$…$$ for tex, and alternatives of ¢¢…¢¢ or ££…££ or €€…€€ for itex ?

though I'd prefer it the other way round, with the default ($$) choice being for itex, and people having to think a bit harder to choose tex … many posts are getting very tall and broken up by repeatedly starting a new line for just one symbol ​

 

[Fredrik]

almost every keyboard has $, and either £ € or ¢ next to it,

so how about $$…$$ for tex, and alternatives of ¢¢…¢¢ or ££…££ or €€…€€ for itex ?

That's certainly acceptable to me. The reasoning behind my suggestion in #250 is that it allows almost everyone to use either Shift+3 for itex and Shift+4 for tex, or Alt Gr+3 for itex and Alt Gr+4 for tex. the Swiss and a few others would have to do it in a different way, but it looks like it would be just as easy for them.

I'd prefer it the other way round, with the default ($$) choice being for itex

The main reason why that idea bothers me a little is that $$math$$ has the same effect as \begin{equation*}math\end{equation*} in a LaTeX document, i.e. it has the same effect as tex tags here.

Uhh...I don't know why MathJax turns that into an image. Click quote to see what I typed.

 

[Redbelly98]

almost every keyboard has $, and either £ € or ¢ next to it...

In U.S., we don't have £ € or ¢. Used to have ¢ on typewriters long ago, but it is not present on computer keyboards here.

What about a double pound sign? Is that ever used in anything?

Sounds like that would work. The # character appears to be common to all keyboards using latin alphabets (N. & S. America and Europe) I have just found there's a wiki page showing standard keyboard layouts for different countries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#United_Kingdom"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#United_States"
etc.

 

[Fredrik]

You guys call # a pound sign? Then what do you call £?

 

[tiny-tim]

The main reason why that idea bothers me a little is that $$math$$ has the same effect as \begin{equation*}math\end{equation*} in a LaTeX document, i.e. it has the same effect as tex tags here.

but would it really matter if newcomers thought they were typing tex but got itex instead ?

In U.S., we don't have £ € or ¢. Used to have ¢ on typewriters long ago, but it is not present on computer keyboards here.

oops! i assumed ¢ was essential in the US!

ok, in that case ¢ is pointless, so instead …

how about $$…$$ for tex, and alternatives of $…$ or ££…££ or €€…€€ for itex ?

(or t'other way round)

 

[Fredrik]

but would it really matter if newcomers thought they were typing tex but got itex instead ?

It wouldn't matter much to anyone. It shouldn't matter at all to newcomers. I would find it a little bit annoying to use $$...$$ in a way that's different from what that code means in actual LaTeX, but I could get used to it.

ok, in that case ¢ is pointless, so instead …

The (admittedly very small) point is to let French Canadians use Alt Gr+3 and Alt Gr+4 instead of Alt Gr+3 and Shift+4. So I don't think they will be too disappointed if we drop that symbol. Similar things can be said about that dot symbol and Spaniards, and the paragraph symbol and Germans.

how about $$…$$ for tex, and alternatives of $…$ or ££…££ or €€…€€ for itex ?

(or t'other way round)

I don't see a use for the Euro symbol. Almost everyone has # and/or £ on the 3 key, and $ on the 4 key. Most (all?) of the ones who don't can still type # and £ as easily as €.

 

[Borek]

Question is - if something else that tex tags is used, what if one day Greg will decide/need to change MathJax to something else? It can potentially make future migration much more difficult (now adding MathJax doesn't require any changes to existing posts).

I guess what I actually mean is "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

 

[tiny-tim]

I guess what I actually mean is "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".

Hi Borek!

If you use the "bad" Enlish "ain't", then you should also use the "bad" English "broke" (not "broken")!

(although wikipedia claims that this expression dates from 1977, a google book search show plenty of prior usage, including The American school board journal, Volume 166, 1891, at http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=H_YqAAAAMAAJ&q=%22If+it+ain't+broke,+don't+fix+it%22…&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAg)

 

[Borek]

I see. I am afraid this is one of these things that may not stick

 

[Fredrik]

Question is - if something else that tex tags is used, what if one day Greg will decide/need to change MathJax to something else? It can potentially make future migration much more difficult (now adding MathJax doesn't require any changes to existing posts).

It would almost certainly be possible to specify what to use as delimiters in that software too, and I don't think we would be completely screwed even if it isn't. We could e.g. run a script that replaces the delimiters that will cause problems with the new software. This would be a bit of a pain, but this pain should be multiplied with the probability that we (actually Greg) will experience it.

 

[vela]

Uhh...I don't know why MathJax turns that into an image. Click quote to see what I typed.

Looks like MathJax processes stuff between \begin and \end even though it's not between delimiters. It worked with equation and array at least.

 

[yenchin]

I have the same problem with Chrome with Vista [on two computers]. Everything just hanged for a minute or so and I couldn't do anything.

This still irritates me

 

[Sybren]

Am I the only person for who the math looks rough around the edges?
I just found, after some searching, a method of producing antialiased typography: it can be done through generated Flash images (these are temporary, and only generate on top of the current equations if Flash is available). This is in my opinion an elegant solution for creating PDF-quality Latex.

Pleae see the link I found: http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/sifr

 

[Fredrik]

Oh no, that site has a picture from when I met Stan Lee:

[PLAIN]http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljfhd0uyTH1qbocrho1_500.jpg

 

[Sybren]

Here is a working example of a serious implementation of Latex in Flash
http://www.fmath.info/latexImplemented.jsp

I would like to know your opinion about possibly implementing such a rendering method on physicsforums, since flash can produce scalable vector graphics, producing fast and high-quality renderings of Latex.

 

[Sybren]

Here are other examples of Latex rendered in flash:
http://www.flashandmath.com/basic/latex/index.html
http://www.tlhiv.org/LaTeX2swf/
http://validi.fi/latex2flash/

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Am I the only person for who the math looks rough around the edges?

It looks just as smooth as normal text to me. This is on Chrome 13, Windows Vista.

 

[Borek]

Am I the only person for who the math looks rough around the edges?

I am afraid so.

 

[Sybren]

I am afraid so.

Problem solved!
I had to turn on my Windows Cleartype.. Maybe helpful information for other people around here, because the rendering is now done by the browser, so quality can variate.

Attached is a comparison with cleartype on/off, it really makes a difference:

 

[Hurkyl]

I see. I am afraid this is one of these things that may not stick

Remember the rule by remembering the horrible pun:

If it ain't baroque, don't fix it!​