Why Are My Coupled Oscillator Eigenvalues Incorrect?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the eigenvalues and eigenvectors for a system of three masses connected by springs. The original poster expresses confusion over obtaining incorrect eigenvalues despite following what they believe to be the correct procedure. The motion equations and the corresponding matrix setup are presented, but discrepancies arise in the determinant calculation leading to different eigenvalues than expected.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question the validity of the polynomial derived from the determinant expansion, specifically the presence of certain squared terms. There is discussion about finding common factors in the characteristic equation and how to approach the determinant for larger matrices.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the determinant expansion process and identified potential errors in the original poster's calculations. There is acknowledgment of a mistake made by the original poster regarding the terms used in the determinant, which has led to their confusion. The conversation reflects a collaborative effort to clarify the steps involved without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

The original poster has expressed frustration over their lengthy attempts to resolve the issue, indicating a high level of engagement with the problem. The discussion highlights the complexity of working with larger matrices and the importance of careful attention to detail in calculations.

Redwaves
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Homework Statement
What are the eigenvalue and eigenvectors
##m_a = m_b = m_c##
Relevant Equations
##\frac{d^2x_a}{dt^2} + \frac{2kx_a}{m} - \frac{kx_b}{m}##

##\frac{d^2x_b}{dt^2} + \frac{3kx_b}{m} - \frac{kx_a}{m} - 2\frac{kx_c}{m}##

##\frac{d^2x_c}{dt^2} + \frac{2kx_c}{m} - \frac{2kx_b}{m}##
Hi,
I have to find the eigenvalues and eigenvectors for a system of 3 masses and 4 springs. At the end I don't get the right eigenvalues, but honestly I don't know why. Everything seems fine for me. I spent the day to look where is my error, but I really don't know.
zOPIHiX.png

##m_a = m_b = m_c##

I got these motion equations

##\frac{d^2x_a}{dt^2} + \frac{2kx_a}{m} - \frac{kx_b}{m} = 0##

##\frac{d^2x_b}{dt^2} + \frac{3kx_b}{m} - \frac{kx_a}{m} - 2\frac{kx_c}{m} = 0##

##\frac{d^2x_c}{dt^2} + \frac{2kx_c}{m} - \frac{2kx_b}{m} = 0##

Then, after plugging the solution ##x(t) = X_{ni} cos(\omega_n + \alpha_n)##

I get this matrix

##\begin{pmatrix}
-\omega_n^2 +\frac{2k}{m} & -\frac{k}{m} & 0\\
- \frac{k}{m} & -\omega_n^2 +\frac{3k}{m} & -\frac{2k}{m} \\
0 & -\frac{2k}{m} &-\omega_n^2 +\frac{2k}{m}
\end{pmatrix}##

Next, I have to find that ##det(A)## = 0
##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{2k}{m})[(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2 -(\frac{2k}{m})^2 - (\frac{k}{m})^2 ] = 0##

thus,
I have ##\omega_1^2 = \frac{2k}{m}, \omega_2^2 = -\frac{k}{m}(-3 -\sqrt{5}), \omega_3^2 = -\frac{k}{m}(-3 +\sqrt{5})##

However the correct eigenvalues are
I have ##\omega_1^2 = \frac{2k}{m}, \omega_2^2 = \frac{5-\sqrt{21}}{2}\frac{k}{m}, \omega_3^2 = \frac{5+\sqrt{21}}{2}\frac{k}{m}##

 
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I don't see how you got that polynomial from expanding the determinant. In particular, how do you get a term
##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2##
?
I get the book answer, except I get 24s instead of 21s.
 
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haruspex said:
I don't see how you got that polynomial from expanding the determinant. In particular, how do you get a term
##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2##
?
I get the book answer, except I get 24s instead of 21s.
I agree that the ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2## term does not belong. However, the determinant I got gives the book's eigenvalues.
 
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kuruman said:
I agree that the ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2## term does not belong. However, the determinant I got gives the book's eigenvalues.
My bad after checking for 100 times I see my error. I replaced ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2## with ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{2k}{m})^2##
I'm so frustrated I spent all day just for that.
Thanks guys
 
Redwaves said:
My bad after checking for 100 times I see my error. I replaced ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{3k}{m})^2## with ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{2k}{m})^2##
I'm so frustrated I spent all day just for that.
Thanks guys
I don't see how one gets ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{2k}{m})^2## out of this.

When I am faced with the eigenvalues of a matrix larger than 2×2, I try to find common factors in the characteristic equation before multiplying out any terms in parentheses. In this case, expanding the determinant along the top row gives $$\left(\frac{2 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)\left[\left(\frac{3 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)-\frac{4 k^2}{m^2}\right] +\frac{k}{m} \left[-\frac{k}{m}\left(\frac{2k}{m}-\omega_n^2\right)\right]=0.$$There is an obvious common factor ##\left(\frac{2 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)## which provides the first eigenvalue ##\omega_1^2=2k/m##. To find the other two eigenvalues, we assert that ##\omega_n^2\neq2k/m## and divide the equation by the common factor to get $$\left(\frac{3 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)-\frac{5 k^2}{m^2} =0.$$Solving the quadratic is trivial.
 
kuruman said:
I don't see how one gets ##(-\omega_n^2 + \frac{2k}{m})^2## out of this.

When I am faced with the eigenvalues of a matrix larger than 2×2, I try to find common factors in the characteristic equation before multiplying out any terms in parentheses. In this case, expanding the determinant along the top row gives $$\left(\frac{2 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)\left[\left(\frac{3 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)-\frac{4 k^2}{m^2}\right] +\frac{k}{m} \left[-\frac{k}{m}\left(\frac{2k}{m}-\omega_n^2\right)\right]=0.$$There is an obvious common factor ##\left(\frac{2 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)## which provides the first eigenvalue ##\omega_1^2=2k/m##. To find the other two eigenvalues, we assert that ##\omega_n^2\neq2k/m## and divide the equation by the common factor to get $$\left(\frac{3 k}{m}-\omega_n^2 \right)-\frac{5 k^2}{m^2} =0.$$Solving the quadratic is trivial.
I meant, in the matrix at position 2ij, I replaced 2k/m with 3k/m in the determinant formula.
 
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That will do it. Thanks for the clarification.
 

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