News Why are people so trusting of the government?

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The discussion centers around the skepticism towards government actions and the rationale behind questioning political decisions. Participants express a belief that excessive trust in government is unwarranted, advocating for constant scrutiny of political figures, as they are seen as self-serving and prone to corruption. Critics argue that some dismissals of government criticism may stem from the criticisms being unjustified or lacking evidence. The conversation touches on the balance between healthy skepticism and the potential for wasting time on unfounded conspiracy theories. There is a call for greater transparency and accountability in government, with some arguing that the public should remain vigilant to prevent politicians from acting solely in their own interests. The dialogue also highlights the complexities of trust in political figures versus personal relationships, emphasizing that knowing someone personally can foster trust more than political rhetoric. Overall, the thread reflects a deep concern about the integrity of government officials and the need for active civic engagement to ensure accountability.
WarPhalange
I'm not sure whether to put this here or in the philosophy forum, but I figure since it applies to this forum more, I could put it here. I apologize if I'm wrong...

On this specific politics sub-forum I see a lot of people dismissing criticisms of the government, whether it be secret congressional meetings, motivations of the administration, or whatever. Doesn't matter.

My question is basically "Why?". Why trust them further than you can throw them? I can't see any disadvantage to questioning every single move the government makes, and smacking them upside the head when they start to get cocky or screw up or it's Thursday. After all, they are public servants, with the President being the biggest public servant in the USA.

Discuss.
 
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WarPhalange said:
I can't see any disadvantage to questioning every single move the government makes
Excessive questioning wastes time and distracts attention from what real problems might exist.

On this specific politics sub-forum I see a lot of people dismissing criticisms of the government
Have you considered the possiblility that some of those dismissals might actually be because the criticisms are unjustified? e.g. the reasoning behind the criticism might be specious, incomplete, or irrelevant? Sometimes, the reasoning isn't even presented!
 
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You can count me off the list, I'm have a lot of criticism for the government. They are central planners, intellectuals who try to be a world improver. In their hopes of achieving utopia, they reform and reform, and then try to reform some more to fix the mistakes that they caused in the beginning with their initial reforms. Too bad they can't realize that the only thing they need to reform is themselves. Don't get me started on corruption either.
 
Speaking of specious, the question in the title doesn't attach logically to the question in the OP. Ie, dismissing criticisms of the government seen in this forum does not make someone "so trusting" if the criticisms seen here are unjustified. And many are.

In addition, if people agree with things that are said, there isn't much to discuss, so such threads don't generate much discussion.
 
A lot of the documents released from the government have been released through the FOIA, meaning that they were originally written without knowing that the public was going to read them, like the earlier ones. NCS68 comes to mind. Those are to be believed.

Really, I don't understand the question. I would trust the government on statistical info more than I would the other large, dominant institution, the corporate system.

Frankly, I think "mistrust" and hatred of the government is wrongly directed. This hatred of the government and "anti-government" nonsense is pushed by conservative people who want to convince citizens that government is the problem, not the solution, even though they have a vested interest in seeing resources privatized, which, when it occurs, merely shifts power further into the hands of private tyrannies with guaranteed state protections.

The government is one of the few areas left where citizens can have a rather large impact, so actually, it is the lesser evil compared to corporate tyranny that exists in the US.
 
This is really the only framework to understand governement:

http://www.cis.org.au/policy/spr03/polspr03-2.htm

Public Choice:
Politics Without Romance
James M. Buchanan
Click here for PDF version

Public choice theory demonstrates why looking to government to fix things can often lead to more harm than good, as one of its leading architects and Nobel laureate James M. Buchanan explains

...

Nations emerging from World War II, including the Western democracies, were allocating between one-third and one-half of their total product through political institutions rather than through markets. Economists, however, were devoting their efforts almost exclusively to understanding and explaining the market sector. My own modest first entry into the subject matter, in 1949, was little more than a call for those economists who examined taxes and spending to pay some attention to empirical reality, and thus to politics.

Initially, the work of economists in this area raised serious doubts about the political process. Working simultaneously, but independently, Kenneth Arrow and Duncan Black proved that democracy, interpreted as majority rule, could not work to promote any general or public interest. The now-famous 'impossibility theorem', as published in Arrow's book Social Choice and Individual Values (1951), stimulated an extended discussion. What Arrow and Black had in fact done was to discover or rediscover the phenomenon of 'majority cycles', whereby election results rotate in continuous cycles with no equilibrium or stopping point. The suggestion of this analysis was that majoritarian democracy is inherently unstable.

I entered this discussion with a generalised critique of the analysis generated by the Arrow-Black approach. Aren't 'majority cycles' the most desirable outcome of a democratic process? After all, any attainment of political equilibrium via majority rule would amount to the permanent imposition of the majority's will on the outvoted minority. Would not a guaranteed rotation of outcomes be preferable, enabling the members of the minority in one round of voting to come back in subsequent rounds and ascend to majority membership? My concern, then and later, was the prevention of discrimination against minorities rather than stability of political outcomes. The question, from an economist's perspective, was how to obtain a combination of efficiency and justice under majority rule.

...
... If the government is empowered to grant monopoly rights or tariff protection to one group, at the expense of the general public or of designated losers, it follows that potential beneficiaries will compete for the prize. And since only one group can be rewarded, the resources invested by other groups-which could have been used to produce valued goods and services-are wasted. Given this basic insight, much of modern politics can be understood as rent-seeking activity. Pork-barrel politics is only the most obvious example. Much of the growth of the bureaucratic or regulatory sector of government can best be explained in terms of the competition between political agents for constituency support through the use of promises of discriminatory transfers of wealth.
...

Objections to public choice
There is a familiar criticism of public choice theory to the effect that it is ideologically biased. In comparing and analysing alternative sets of constitutional rules, both those in existence and those that might be introduced prospectively, how does public choice theory, as such, remain neutral in the scientific sense?

Here it is necessary to appreciate the prevailing mindset of social scientists and philosophers at the midpoint of the 20th century when public choice arose. The socialist ideology was pervasive, and was supported by the allegedly neutral research programme called 'theoretical welfare economics', which concentrated on identifying the failures of observed markets to meet idealised standards. In sum, this branch of inquiry offered theories of market failure. But failure in comparison with what? The implicit presumption was always that politicised corrections for market failures would work perfectly. In other words, market failures were set against an idealised politics.

Public choice then came along and provided analyses of the behavior of persons acting politically, whether voters, politicians or bureaucrats. These analyses exposed the essentially false comparisons that were then informing so much of both scientific and public opinion. In a very real sense, public choice became a set of theories of governmental failures, as an offset to the theories of market failures that had previously emerged from theoretical welfare economics. Or, as I put it in the title of a lecture in Vienna in 1978, public choice may be summarised by the three-word description, 'politics without romance'.

The public choice research programme is better seen as a correction of the scientific record than as the introduction of an anti-governmental ideology. Regardless of any ideological bias, exposure to public choice analysis necessarily brings a more critical attitude toward politicised nostrums to alleged socioeconomic problems. Public choice almost literally forces the critic to be pragmatic in comparing alternative constitutional arrangements, disallowing any presumption that bureaucratic corrections for market failures will accomplish the desired objectives.
 
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Buchanan, who openly supported selling yourself into slavery, is completely misdirected here. All markets have been constructed with huge government intervention, first of all, and it takes a big government to determine who can and can't own property. This is especially true in the third world where markets are forced "open" under totalitarian regimes.

I've never seen it "proven" in economics that democracy does not work, and private capitalism does work, either. The US' most prosperous times were (1) when trade was heavily controlled and (2) when there was a large expansion of social democracy.
 
OrbitalPower said:
Buchanan, who openly supported selling yourself into slavery, is completely misdirected here. All markets have been constructed with huge government intervention, first of all, and it takes a big government to determine who can and can't own property. This is especially true in the third world where markets are forced "open" under totalitarian regimes.

I've never seen it "proven" in economics that democracy does not work, and private capitalism does work, either. The US' most prosperous times were (1) when trade was heavily controlled and (2) when there was a large expansion of social democracy.

Where has James Buchanan, winner of the 1986 Nobel Prize in economics, ever "supported selling yourself into slavery"? How does examining critically the motives and incentives of political actors constitute an attack on the neccessity of government or laws?
 
Hurkyl said:
Excessive questioning wastes time and distracts attention from what real problems might exist.

Do you have any examples of this?

Have you considered the possiblility that some of those dismissals might actually be because the criticisms are unjustified? e.g. the reasoning behind the criticism might be specious, incomplete, or irrelevant? Sometimes, the reasoning isn't even presented!

Did you not read my post? My argument is that isn't it better to stay on the safe side and assume that politicians are corrupt and self-serving instead of letting them roam free thinking that they will do what's best for the public?
 
  • #10
WarPhalange said:
... Why trust them further than you can throw them? I can't see any disadvantage to questioning every single move the government makes, and smacking them upside the head when they start to get cocky or screw up or it's Thursday. ...
You seem to be suggesting a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy" , which is common. That is, it is a practical impossibility for you to examine 'every single move' your representative(s) make(s), absent quitting your job and sitting in their office 24/7, repeat for each local/state/federal representative.
 
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  • #11
Sure, but all too often people who criticize the government or propose doing so get ridiculed. Like the people who said the Iraq War would be for oil being called conspiracy nuts.

Everybody knows Cheney outed Valerie Plame, yet there's a huge charade going on instead of just kicking his *** for it.

Things of that nature.
 
  • #12
WarPhalange said:
...Everybody knows Cheney outed Valerie Plame, yet there's a huge charade going on instead of just kicking his *** for it.

Things of that nature.
Everybody, does not know. Cite?
 
  • #13
See? This is what I'm talking about. "He didn't admit, therefore it didn't happen!"

Normally we'd take a guy like that on trial to find out, but that isn't happening, now is it? Go ask yourself why that is and you'll know why I think the way I do.
 
  • #14
Ah ok. I accept your logic and assert you did it WarP. The absence of your admittance proves nothing. You must be tried.
 
  • #15
Okay. Put me on trial.
 
  • #16
WarPhalange said:
Sure, but all too often people who criticize the government or propose doing so get ridiculed. Like the people who said the Iraq War would be for oil being called conspiracy nuts.

This does happen a lot. Often it is best to ignore the people who do this. To call someone a 'nut' or 'crazy' usually means that person (who is doing the insulting) is being ignorant or can't see from the other perspective. It stems from group think and mob behavior which is something you must avoid at all cost. Be open to all points of view and don't make the same mistake that they did!
 
  • #17
falc39 said:
that person (who is doing the insulting) is being ignorant or can't see from the other perspective. It stems from group think and mob behavior which is something you must avoid at all cost. Be open to all points of view and don't make the same mistake that they did!
I can only hope that the people here that see a conspiracy around every corner or think anyone in government is corrupt and can't be trusted, or is into endless bashing listens to this.
 
  • #18
Evo said:
think anyone in government is corrupt and can't be trusted

I look at it the same way as I look at a gun: it's always loaded.

Giving someone power is inherently putting them in a position where they have a conflict of interest. If it's a sheriff or mayor that I know because they live right around the corner, I can trust them better.

But when it's people who usually come from big business being given power by some 300 million people, that's a setup for a disaster.

Of course, that's why we have checks and balances, but even those are just people, as we can see with Senator Ted Stevens*, and Nixon.

*he hasn't been convicted yet, but other people involved have already been convicted or plead guilty. Doesn't look good for him.

I don't think the government is out to get me, I just think many of them care more about themselves than their people.
 
  • #19
WarPhalange said:
I don't think the government is out to get me, I just think many of them care more about themselves than their people.
Criticism is easy. What do you advocate ? Anarchism ?
 
  • #20
WarPhalange said:
I don't think the government is out to get me, I just think many of them care more about themselves than their people.
Does that surprise you?

Look at Obama. I'm voting for him, or at least I was, because I am pro-choice, I am against offshore drilling and drilling in environmentally protected areas, a lot of reasons that are party based, but honestly his recent behavior has made me question if he's not egomaniacal. What is with his "logo", what is with his fake "presidential seal"? That display abroad. The 'note" in the wall in Jerusalem. :rolleyes: I'm afraid that he has one interest and one interest only, in becoming President and I don't know how out of touch with people he is becoming. His campaign people say they are are putting him in smaller towns to make him appear that he hasn't lost touch. BIG RED FLAG. Letterman was spot on in his criticism. I still wouldn't vote for McCain because I disagree with basic issues, but the choices are looking less desirable.
 
  • #21
I have not seen this discuss anywhere else, and maybe I should not distract the discussion, but I really do not understand how "display abroad" can be considered negatively. Are you not happy that at least one candidate makes Europe so optimistic ? It is very hard to interpret, is it a feeling of disapproval of foreign intervention ?
 
  • #22
humanino said:
Criticism is easy. What do you advocate ? Anarchism ?

Err... why would I?

I advocate more transparency and more scrutiny. Overall I think this is the best system humans have developed so far, it's just that we as the populace can't be lazy and let politicians run free.

Evo said:
Does that surprise you?

Look at Obama. I'm voting for him, or at least I was, because I am pro-choice, I am against offshore drilling and drilling in environmentally protected areas, a lot of reasons that are party based, but honestly his recent behavior has made me question if he's not egomaniacal. What is with his "logo", what is with his fake "presidential seal"? That display abroad. The 'note" in the wall in Jerusalem. :rolleyes: I'm afraid that he has one interest and one interest only, in becoming President and I don't know how out of touch with people he is becoming. His campaign people say they are are putting him in smaller towns to make him appear that he hasn't lost touch. BIG RED FLAG. Letterman was spot on in his criticism. I still wouldn't vote for McCain because I disagree with basic issues, but the choices are looking less desirable.

Voting for the lesser of two evils is a whole separate issue.

I'm talking about Obama saying he's doing X for the people, but instead doing it for himself.

We can say that about the recent FISA bill decision. He voted for it claiming it would help with national security. It ended up eroding more of our freedoms and gaining him some points with people who think he's bad on national security. That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

If more people had said "Hey Obama, what's with your FISA decision?" we might have done something or at least made him feel like a fool.

People are starting to do that more and more thanks to The Youtube. Look at McCain's campaign. But I think we could do better and catch people on BS whenever it happens.
 
  • #23
WarPhalange said:
My argument is that isn't it better to stay on the safe side and assume that politicians are corrupt and self-serving instead of letting them roam free thinking that they will do what's best for the public?
Assume all you want. But if you wish to assert something, you need to support it.


WarPhalange said:
My argument is that isn't it better to stay on the safe side and assume that politicians are corrupt and self-serving instead of letting them roam free thinking that they will do what's best for the public?
So? You asked why criticisms were dismissed -- I responded that it was because many are unfounded. You say that we should be wary, but that doesn't change the fact that those criticisms are unfounded...

Another part of the problem is that criticism alone is useless -- to make an informed decision/opinion/whatever about something, not only do you need to consider its bad points, but also its good points, and how it compares to alternatives. An unsettling number of people don't seem to realize that...
 
  • #24
humanino said:
I have not seen this discuss anywhere else, and maybe I should not distract the discussion, but I really do not understand how "display abroad" can be considered negatively. Are you not happy that at least one candidate makes Europe so optimistic ? It is very hard to interpret, is it a feeling of disapproval of foreign intervention ?

I had thought about starting a thread on this. Essentially a lot of people feel that he was acting as though he was already the president.
 
  • #25
TheStatutoryApe said:
Essentially a lot of people feel that he was acting as though he was already the president.
Thank you for your answer. :smile: I think if it comes to this aspect, it's more the people who were acting like that than the candidate himself. And by people, I mean even the official organization was more serious, and Sarkozy even said something like "we met previously, neither of us was president yet". Honestly I don't find that funny at all, but that's even another discussion about Sarkozy constant borderline behavior. That's how I came to think about "intervention".
 
  • #26
WarPhalange said:
My argument is that isn't it better to stay on the safe side and assume that politicians are corrupt and self-serving instead of letting them roam free thinking that they will do what's best for the public?
The biggest problem I see with that is that you'll waste so much time and energy chasing ghosts that you're more likely to miss real issues than if you just hung back and watched instead of just assuming everything you see is some kind of conspiracy.

Also, it really isn't healthy to go through life believing you see conspiracies everywhere. How do you ever trust anyone? Your friends and family?
 
  • #27
russ_watters said:
Also, it really isn't healthy to go through life believing you see conspiracies everywhere. How do you ever trust anyone? Your friends and family?
How about trusting oneself !? In that case, assuming it is true WarPhalange is loosing his time and energy concentrating on the wrong problems, he should think why he trusts himself so much. Just being logical rather than really willing to be provocative :smile:
 
  • #28
Its somewhat symantic, but it is not constructive to think of a single entity called "government". Government is a collection of individuals persuing their own self interest, just like the rest of the world

So given that,

I trust the politicians & government officials completely.

I believe at every available opportunity they will dole out patronage, pander to key interest groups, set themselves up for lucrative gigs after they are out of office, and generally do anything that maximizes their own self-interest.
 
  • #29
russ_watters said:
The biggest problem I see with that is that you'll waste so much time and energy chasing ghosts that you're more likely to miss real issues than if you just hung back and watched instead of just assuming everything you see is some kind of conspiracy.

Also, it really isn't healthy to go through life believing you see conspiracies everywhere. How do you ever trust anyone? Your friends and family?

Don't you just love false-dichotomies? "You no trust government! HOW DO TRUST FRIENDS?"
 
  • #30
What I asked was "how do you trust anyone?" It's a legitimate question given that you seem driven to find conspiracies, liars, etc even when there is no specific reason to suspect such things.
 
  • #31
russ_watters said:
What I asked was "how do you trust anyone?"

Trust them with what? I don't give my friends a portion of my paycheck and tell them to do something with it that will help me.

Likewise with friends and family I spend time with them. A politician makes a few speeches and that's all I have to go by, especially if they are new.

you seem driven to find conspiracies, liars, etc even when there is no specific reason to suspect such things.

I do? That's news to me. What else do you know about me that I myself don't?
 
  • #32
WarPhalange said:
Trust them with what? I don't give my friends a portion of my paycheck and tell them to do something with it that will help me.

Likewise with friends and family I spend time with them. A politician makes a few speeches and that's all I have to go by, especially if they are new.

It seems you're a bit paranoid. Russ' question is valid. If you're assuming conspiracies, then how can you trust the people around you?
 
  • #33
WarPhalange said:
I do? That's news to me. What else do you know about me that I myself don't?
Only what's related to this thread.
 
  • #34
Evo said:
Look at Obama. I'm voting for him, or at least I was, because I am pro-choice, I am against offshore drilling and drilling in environmentally protected areas, a lot of reasons that are party based, but honestly his recent behavior has made me question if he's not egomaniacal.
Vote for Nader. You get pro-choice, anti-drilling, anti-Iraq war, and anti-Corvair. Don't tell me you agree with him on every issue and yet call him the spoiler.
 
  • #35
jimmysnyder said:
Vote for Nader. You get pro-choice, anti-drilling, anti-Iraq war, and anti-Corvair. Don't tell me you agree with him on every issue and yet call him the spoiler.

Reasonable people don't let the excellent be the enemy of the good. (For the record, I do not think Nader is excellent!) This is why Barr is only drawing in the single digits, even in very conservative states.

Progress comes in small steps.
 
  • #36
LightbulbSun said:
It seems you're a bit paranoid.

Thanks, doctor.

If you're assuming conspiracies, then how can you trust the people around you?

I don't understand how you people can make such a huge jump in logic.

"You don't trust people who are very tempted with power and greed = you don't trust ANYBODY!"

It would be like me assuming since you let the airport security pat you down, you'll let ANYBODY perform a cavity search on you.
 
  • #37
WarPhalange said:
Thanks, doctor.



I don't understand how you people can make such a huge jump in logic.

"You don't trust people who are very tempted with power and greed = you don't trust ANYBODY!"

It would be like me assuming since you let the airport security pat you down, you'll let ANYBODY perform a cavity search on you.

Let me ask you this, do you assume 99% of all world events are part of some conspiracy?
 
  • #38
lisab said:
Reasonable people don't let the excellent be the enemy of the good. (For the record, I do not think Nader is excellent!) This is why Barr is only drawing in the single digits, even in very conservative states.

Progress comes in small steps.
Better to vote for someone you want and see them lose, than to vote for someone you don't want and see them win.
 
  • #39
WarPhalange said:
My question is basically "Why?". Why trust them further than you can throw them?
Why would you not trust them? Afterall, the government is voted in: if the majority of the country does not trust a president (or senator, or whatever) then s/he wouldn't get in. Otherwise, it seems like you are being rather paranoid.
 
  • #40
WarPhalange said:
I don't understand how you people can make such a huge jump in logic.

"You don't trust people who are very tempted with power and greed = you don't trust ANYBODY!"
Everyone on Earth is tempted by power and money. Its all just a matter of degree.

Now perhaps you see the entry into politics as being an indicator as to the level of power-hunger and greed a person has, but you can't put people into neat little boxes like that (for one thing, there really isn't much money to be made in politics for most politicians). And you can't put your friends and family into neat little boxes like that either. I have friends that I trust completely, but others that I wouldn't loan a dvd or money to (again) because I know I'd never see it again.
It would be like me assuming since you let the airport security pat you down, you'll let ANYBODY perform a cavity search on you.
Heh, who do you think those guys are? You let airport security pat you down, you are letting just anyone pat you down.
 
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  • #41
LightbulbSun said:
Let me ask you this, do you assume 99% of all world events are part of some conspiracy?

When did I say that?


cristo said:
Why would you not trust them? Afterall, the government is voted in

So? How much do you know about either of these two candidates running today? They give a few speeches, maybe write a book, and have their friends vouch for them. Does that count as "knowing" them enough to trust them? Not in my book.
russ_watters said:
Everyone on Earth is tempted by power and money. Its all just a matter of degree.

Exactly. None of my friends and family are tempted to the degree that the politicians on top are. They have nothing to gain from backstabbing me if they were inclined to do so.

Now perhaps you see the entry into politics as being an indicator as to the level of power-hunger and greed a person has, but you can't put people into neat little boxes like that (for one thing, there really isn't much money to be made in politics for most politicians). And you can't put your friends and family into neat little boxes like that either. I have friends that I trust completely, but others that I wouldn't loan a dvd or money to (again) because I know I'd never see it again.

Sorry, you got it totally wrong. My stance is that normal people go into politics (and business), but that power corrupts, and that's why we need to be careful and make sure we know what our leaders are doing.

Friends and family are easier to trust because you know them better. You don't listen to a few speeches and then "vote" for someone to become your friend.

But hey, say one of your buddies who doesn't return stuff becomes a high-ranking politician. Would you trust him then?

Heh, who do you think those guys are? You let airport security pat you down, you are letting just anyone pat you down.

So you'd be okay with a random bum giving you a cavity search? Because that was my original question.
 
  • #42
LightbulbSun said:
Let me ask you this, do you assume 99% of all world events are part of some conspiracy?

According to the Bible, yes.
 
  • #43
Evo said:
...honestly his recent behavior has made me question if he's not egomaniacal. What is with his "logo", what is with his fake "presidential seal"? That display abroad. The 'note" in the wall in Jerusalem. :rolleyes: I'm afraid that he has one interest and one interest only, in becoming President and I don't know how out of touch with people he is becoming. His campaign people say they are are putting him in smaller towns to make him appear that he hasn't lost touch. BIG RED FLAG. Letterman was spot on in his criticism. I still wouldn't vote for McCain because I disagree with basic issues, but the choices are looking less desirable.
Johnny Mac agrees with you, logo and all:
 
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  • #44
That's terrible, but I almost choked from laughing so hard.

Kind of an SNL commercial. Baaad McCain.

Obama actually has a logo in addition to the presidential seal, it's round with a blue arc above and three red arcs below. WTH is that?
 
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  • #45
Evo said:
That's terrible, but I almost choked from laughing so hard.
It's not the first time I see a video on youtube from somebody trying to make a serious point, and to my understanding just producing a hilarious video making precisely the opposite point. Indeed, it's very sad if that has actually been produced by the second candidate :-p
 
  • #46
humanino said:
It's not the first time I see a video on youtube from somebody trying to make a serious point, and to my understanding just producing a hilarious video making precisely the opposite point. Indeed, it's very sad if that has actually been produced by the second candidate :-p
Well, McCain has a second career in comedy!

You have to admit that was well done. When they cut to Moses splitting the Red Sea, I spewed.

I can't stop watching it. :blushing:
 
  • #47
WarPhalange said:
When did I say that?

I didn't say you said anything. I was asking you a question. Now answer it.
 
  • #48
I think I have something real to point out that bothers me a little.

I get sick of hearing opinions from people who don't have facts and are not educated enough to have their opinions. People just joint the party and believe in the conspiracies because it is a popular movement. These people have no clue yet they act like know it all, all they really have are borrowed opinions. These people do a lot of automatic assuming of corruption without any specific knowledge.

I despise those type of people with strong opinions about things they are ignorant about. They strike me as arrogant jack@#$es. The reason why I hate it so much is that they give a bad name to those who are serious and educated who question things. Those people just get lumped into the side of the ignorant masses and don't get taken seriously. This is because you have the other side of the ignorant masses with borrowed opinions who automatically are against the other side. Objectivity is thrown out the door and politics are turned into a childish game.

If you want to claim a conspiracy then show some evidence, prove that you are not just another groupie.

You don't have to trust people, but you can't just go around accusing people just because you distrust them.
 
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